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Old 10-22-2007, 09:07 AM   #31
Duodenum
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
How do you think the rematch would have gone all things being equal?
I honestly don't know, as this was the classic situation in which a rematch would be merited. However, I'll try to offer you my best guess.

Before Mike beat Eddie for that title, he predicted in a pre-fight interview that it would probably be a boring contest, with both of them being counterpunchers, In response to Mike's speculation, Eddie said that this wouldn't be true, as he was planning to force the action himself. (Mustafa Muhammad could do this when he chose to, as demonstrated against Snipes and Mwale.)

For a return go, and assuming Eddie was in top condition (as Mike always was), I suspect that the Jinx would take a page out of Renaldo's book, and replicate some of his own approach against Qawi. Spinks would have utilized continual lateral movement, and simply outmaneuver Eddie over 15 rounds.

As much as I admire Eddie's abilities, they were not sufficient for him to catch up to Snipes. In decisioning Qawi, Michael outboxed the performer with the best counterjab of his era, and the champion arguably most skilled at cutting off the ring since Foreman's heyday. My supposition is that Spinks would stay the hell away from Eddie, and use his height, reach and mobility to outscore Mustafa Muhammad, but it would be no cinch. I'd want to review the Spinks/Qawi unification bout again before committing to that position. Boxing experts at the time felt that Michael could scarcely improve on his showing against Ike.

The only thing I'd put money on is that a rematch would have once again gone the 15 round distance, with Eddie in shape.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:28 AM   #32
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
I honestly don't know, as this was the classic situation in which a rematch would be merited. However, I'll try to offer you my best guess.

Before Mike beat Eddie for that title, he predicted in a pre-fight interview that it would probably be a boring contest, with both of them being counterpunchers, In response to Mike's speculation, Eddie said that this wouldn't be true, as he was planning to force the action himself. (Mustafa Muhammad could do this when he chose to, as demonstrated against Snipes and Mwale.)

For a return go, and assuming Eddie was in top condition (as Mike always was), I suspect that the Jinx would take a page out of Renaldo's book, and replicate some of his own approach against Qawi. Spinks would have utilized continual lateral movement, and simply outmaneuver Eddie over 15 rounds.

As much as I admire Eddie's abilities, they were not sufficient for him to catch up to Snipes. In decisioning Qawi, Michael outboxed the performer with the best counterjab of his era, and the champion arguably most skilled at cutting off the ring since Foreman's heyday. My supposition is that Spinks would stay the hell away from Eddie, and use his height, reach and mobility to outscore Mustafa Muhammad, but it would be no cinch. I'd want to review the Spinks/Qawi unification bout again before committing to that position. Boxing experts at the time felt that Michael could scarcely improve on his showing against Ike.

The only thing I'd put money on is that a rematch would have once again gone the 15 round distance, with Eddie in shape.
I'll add two things.

1. At 201 3/4 pounds Eddie would have been lucky to catch me, let alone a world class heavyweight. The man was a walking pear that night.

2. Before getting tired (due to huge weight loss) Mustafa was outboxing Spinks with aplomb. Some of his smoothest boxing ever. Granted Spinks had improved but i don't see him running and outpointing an in form Mustafa that easily. Eddie's jab was prominent in the first 1/3 of their bout.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I'll add two things.

1. At 201 3/4 pounds Eddie would have been lucky to catch me, let alone a world class heavyweight. The man was a walking pear that night.
He certainly leaped into position to deliver that final crushing hook on Mwale with substantial speed. (For those of you who didn't see it, Mustafa Muhammad sent across a straight right which sent Lotte's mouthpiece flying out of the ring, and scrambled his senses. Mwale turned his back on Eddie, and feeling his mouth with his glove, turned his back on Mustafa Muhammad, and began walking in the direction it went flying out to go looking for it. Eddie bounded to his left, from behind Mwale to beside him, and planted himself to nailed Lotte's unprotected jaw with a devastating hook.) Even in the best of condition, Eddie was hardly a world class physical specimen. One thing we can be sure of is that he wasn't weakened against Snipes by trying to make weight!
Quote:
2. Before getting tired (due to huge weight loss) Mustafa was outboxing Spinks with aplomb. Some of his smoothest boxing ever. Granted Spinks had improved but i don't see him running and outpointing an in form Mustafa that easily. Eddie's jab was prominent in the first 1/3 of their bout.
At the very least, I thought the scoring was absurdly slanted in favor of Michael, leading me to wonder if Eddie would have had to knock him out to win. (Duane Ford's card of 146-138 in favor of Spinks especially smacks of questionable intent. Ford's scoring wasn't exactly exemplary during Holmes/Cooney either, although he was generally a reasonably competent judge for other matches he scored which I viewed.)

I wonder how his contest against Snipes would have gone if he'd hired on Mackie Shilstone as his conditioning coach (as Michael did before his challenge of Holmes). My preference would be to agree with you regarding Eddie's chances in a rematch, but he may have been the most frustrating talent of his generation to follow. Ahhh, what might have been!
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Old 10-22-2007, 05:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

I maintain that a motivated Eddie Mustafa Muhammad who would have punched more, in other words, let his hands go more, would have beaten Michael Spinks, as well as Victor Galindez when they met. Eddie was a superb boxer-puncher who beat Marvin Johnson with style as well as power.
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
He certainly leaped into position to deliver that final crushing hook on Mwale with substantial speed. (For those of you who didn't see it, Mustafa Muhammad sent across a straight right which sent Lotte's mouthpiece flying out of the ring, and scrambled his senses. Mwale turned his back on Eddie, and feeling his mouth with his glove, turned his back on Mustafa Muhammad, and began walking in the direction it went flying out to go looking for it. Eddie bounded to his left, from behind Mwale to beside him, and planted himself to nailed Lotte's unprotected jaw with a devastating hook.)
Welllll he didn't actually lol. He threw another right hand after the initial one (that put put the mouthpiece into orbit) which missed, but the followthru left him in perfect position for the stated left hook to the totally unprotected Mwale. Goodnight Irene.

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Old 10-27-2007, 05:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Welllll he didn't actually lol. He threw another right hand after the initial one (that put put the mouthpiece into orbit) which missed, but the followthru left him in perfect position for the stated left hook to the totally unprotected Mwale. Goodnight Irene.

Okay JT, thanks for the clarification. (I'll take you at your word for that, as I don't recall a second follow-up right to the mouthpiece launcher. As I recall it, Lotte's back was turned to Eddie as soon as it went flying out, to feel his mouth for it and go after it.)
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
Okay JT, thanks for the clarification. (I'll take you at your word for that, as I don't recall a second follow-up right to the mouthpiece launcher. As I recall it, Lotte's back was turned to Eddie as soon as it went flying out, to feel his mouth for it and go after it.)
He turned right away for sure, Eddie's follow up right narrowly missed to the side then BAM. Rather big left hook. No chance he saw it either. Great KO.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:52 PM   #38
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

Eddie actually beat Spinks a time or two for hardest punching light heavyweight in the world, he had some stupendous power which was a bit camoflouged and under used due to his laid back style.
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Old 10-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #39
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

PBF deserves a nod....he may be somewhat featherfisted, but you'd expect a guy with his defense to have pillows for gloves. PBF at least has enough pop to score some late TKOs.
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:22 PM   #40
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Default Re: Who were defensive fighters with good power?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
If you look at defensive fighters, you will see that often they don't have that much power. Usually it's a stylistic thing: defensive fighters don't often plant their feet and fire a shot. Guys like Pep, Whitaker, Ali, Byrd, Young, Mayweather, Tunney, etc are all great at defense but lack a punch.

So which fighters had a very good defense but could also punch? I'm talking about a defensively, non-agressive styled boxer, by the way. So while Tyson had an excellent defense in his prime, he doesn't qualify because he fights like a puncher.

Anyway, my first pick would be Jersey Joe Walcott. He was not agressive and often on the backfoot, but his right hand carried some serious power. He put Louis on his ass multiple times, knocked Marciano down (the only time he seemed to be a bit hurt, contrary to Moore's flash knockdown) and of course he has a beautiful one-punch KO over Ezzard Charles.
Any others?
Tunney had power, he can't be mentioned with Sweetpea as a defensive fighter without power. Roy Jones is a good choice and Robinson, Spinks aswell. But seen as though the question was who were defensive fighters with good POWER , then I pick Naz everytime. I f the question was 'who were powerful fighters with good defense?' then I'd pick Duran.
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