Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-09-2007, 05:30 PM   #31
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,090
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arminius
That is the point. It was very close despite Duran being weak and having stomach cramps. Watch the interviews on you tube. A doctor verified Duran's stomache ache. There is video of the corner applying some kind of ice pack and Duran expectd a rematch when he was healthier.

It is funny how no one looks down at Marcel Cerdan for quitting with a broken shoulder against LaMotta.

A broken shoulders a bit different from a never proven tummy ache. Various comments from his own people make it anything but proven.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-09-2007, 08:35 PM   #32
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Two wrong. Leonard W12 Hagler, and Hearns D12 Leonard.
No. I had it right. Officially he got two gifts and we all know it. So his record should read 35-5.
redrooster is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:54 PM   #33
Jbuz
Belt folder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 2065
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Camacho KO 5 Leonard

Hearns W 12 Leonard

Hagler W 12 Leonard

Norris W 12 Leonard

Duran W 15 Leonard

Nice try. At least mine are factual.
Jbuz is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:06 PM   #34
NickHudson
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 447
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

I think 'the Rooster' is making a point about the quality of the scoring.

Hearns blew a fuse in round 12 of the rematch, but he did win the fight overall.

The commentators knew it, the fans knew it, boxing historians know it, and even Leonard himself has subsequently conceded it...

There is a lot of money to be made in boxing. Sometimes the judging is phoney.

Hearns UD Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Two wrong. Leonard W12 Hagler, and Hearns D12 Leonard.
NickHudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:15 PM   #35
zippy
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 222
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
I think 'the Rooster' is making a point about the quality of the scoring.

Hearns blew a fuse in round 12 of the rematch, but he did win the fight overall.

The commentators knew it, the fans knew it, boxing historians know it, and even Leonard himself has subsequently conceded it...

There is a lot of money to be made in boxing. Sometimes the judging is phoney.

Hearns UD Leonard.

I dont agree. I don't think Leonard won, or even that he earned a draw, but it was close. I have seen a LOT worse decisions than this. When many other bad decisions are made, people may be angry, but they eventually shrug and say, well, that's boxing. When this fight is concerned, everyone starts talking about conspiracy. Just shows how polarizing Leonard still is. Kinda like Ali is polarizing. And Marciano.
zippy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:25 PM   #36
NickHudson
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 447
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Agree totally with you mate.

I have also seen worse decisions, BUT this particular one is much more important because it impacts on our debates over P4P top 10 lists. Leonard Hearns II is special because both guys have cases as P4P greats, and what happened in that fight impacts on those cases.

With many fighters we are prepared to shrug our shoulders in the face of bad decisions, but with guys like SRL, with so much at stake legacy-wise we have to split hairs to do the analyses justice!!

After all, this is what forums like ESB are all about - not rewriting history, but making sure history is fairly documented. Boxrec does not always tell the full story.

I feel it doesnt do justice to either man (but particularly Tommy Hearns) if we ignore these issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
I dont agree. I don't think Leonard won, or even that he earned a draw, but it was close. I have seen a LOT worse decisions than this. When many other bad decisions are made, people may be angry, but they eventually shrug and say, well, that's boxing. When this fight is concerned, everyone starts talking about conspiracy. Just shows how polarizing Leonard still is. Kinda like Ali is polarizing. And Marciano.
NickHudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:37 PM   #37
zippy
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 222
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Agree totally with you mate.

I have also seen worse decisions, BUT this particular one is much more important because it impacts on our debates over P4P top 10 lists. Leonard Hearns II is special because both guys have cases as P4P greats, and what happened in that fight impacts on those cases.

With many fighters we are prepared to shrug our shoulders in the face of bad decisions, but with guys like SRL, with so much at stake legacy-wise we have to split hairs to do the analyses justice!!

After all, this is what forums like ESB are all about - not rewriting history, but making sure history is fairly documented. Boxrec does not always tell the full story.

I feel it doesnt do justice to either man (but particularly Tommy Hearns) if we ignore these issues.

I see what you're saying, but I guess what I'm saying is many fighters get the benefit of the doubt without it being felt that they are robbing someone else of their legacy. With Leonard, more is always written into it. He seems to have to live up to more than other great fighters. We excuse Joe Louis for losing to Ezzard Charles, but Leonard is downgraded for scuffling against Hearns and Norris, for example. Its easy to look back this far off and determine later that a decision had some far reaching impact. At the time, it was just a decision, you know what I mean?
zippy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:53 PM   #38
NickHudson
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 447
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Noone gets fully excused for losses in my book, although circumstances are certainly taken into account.

Louis had had a million fights, was washed up and 37 when Charles got to him.

Not convinced that has much bearing on Leonard's condition for Hearns and Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
I see what you're saying, but I guess what I'm saying is many fighters get the benefit of the doubt without it being felt that they are robbing someone else of their legacy. With Leonard, more is always written into it. He seems to have to live up to more than other great fighters. We excuse Joe Louis for losing to Ezzard Charles, but Leonard is downgraded for scuffling against Hearns and Norris, for example. Its easy to look back this far off and determine later that a decision had some far reaching impact. At the time, it was just a decision, you know what I mean?
NickHudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #39
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
I think 'the Rooster' is making a point about the quality of the scoring.

Hearns blew a fuse in round 12 of the rematch, but he did win the fight overall.

The commentators knew it, the fans knew it, boxing historians know it, and even Leonard himself has subsequently conceded it...

There is a lot of money to be made in boxing. Sometimes the judging is phoney.

Hearns UD Leonard.
I thought I'd deal with facts, unlike Rooster. Leonard beat Hagler, and got a draw with Leonard.

IMO Leonard beat Hagler, but was beaten by Hearns in their rematch.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #40
zippy
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 222
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Noone gets fully excused for losses in my book, although circumstances are certainly taken into account.

Louis had had a million fights, was washed up and 37 when Charles got to him.

Not convinced that has much bearing on Leonard's condition for Hearns and Hagler?

He beat Hagler. No reason for him to apologize for anything there, that was a great feat. He was like 32 or 33 when he fought Hearns again, and had a tough time. Well, lots of guys had tough times against Hearns. Had the fight been a fifteen rounder, who knows? He might have done the same thing again and stopped him late. No reason not to believe that, because he had Hearns close to being stopped in the 12th.
zippy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013