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Old 07-01-2007, 02:49 PM   #46
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
Sorry bro, but Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But I still think Pea is smarter, faster, way better defensively, etc.

You need to watch more Whitaker fights (they are all over youtube), then go back to this post and hit the "edit" button.
I mean tell me how can you say P is smarter? Floyd has NO losses NO knock downs.....how has he not been smart in approaching his fights? What makes P smarter....i dont understand that...there is no fight which can state either was smarter than each other, they both were brilliant in the ring.

Now faster..ok...i wont bother with that argument because they both are fast.

You guys kill me with this WAY better defense ....the man has been knock down multiple occasions...now im not saying that means his defense aint great it was...but WAY better than Floyd who has fought tough opponents and took his fare share of punches has no knock downs..even when Castillo was giving it to him in the first fight....i understand P is a All time great...but man the dude had his flaws.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:33 PM   #47
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by igotJUIC3
I mean tell me how can you say P is smarter? Floyd has NO losses NO knock downs.....how has he not been smart in approaching his fights? What makes P smarter....i dont understand that...there is no fight which can state either was smarter than each other, they both were brilliant in the ring.

Now faster..ok...i wont bother with that argument because they both are fast.

You guys kill me with this WAY better defense ....the man has been knock down multiple occasions...now im not saying that means his defense aint great it was...but WAY better than Floyd who has fought tough opponents and took his fare share of punches has no knock downs..even when Castillo was giving it to him in the first fight....i understand P is a All time great...but man the dude had his flaws.
Okay, go and watch Sweet Pea's fights, like I suggested, but let me answer your posts first.

Lets start with the ring smarts thing. Not many fighters were better at making in-fight adjustments to their gameplan. Go watch the Chavez fight...watch Pernell spend the fight, fighting off his jab retreating, and EVERYTIME Chavez attempted to go on the defensive, even for a second, Sweet Pea immediately turned aggressor. Just one example.

Plus, with experience comes wisdom (sorry to get all fortune cookie on ya). Pernell has fought more fights...fought more championship fights...fought better competition...held more titles...etc. He KNEW what to do in any situation. He was a master at outthinking his opponent.

Okay, now onto the next thing. Yes, Floyd is fast...very fast. And it is close. But if you watch the speed on Pernell's jabs and combinations, you can see the difference. And thats without mentioning how fast Pernell moved defensively, his upper body and head movement was ridiculously fast.

Which leads me to your next thing.

Pernell Whitaker is widely considered the BEST DEFENSIVE FIGHTER OF ALL TIME! Floyd is widely considered one of the best defensive fighters on this generation (I have him 2nd or third behind Hopkins and about even with Wright..with Toney slightly behind the rest of them). And while Pernell proved that defense against fighters named Chavez, Nelson, McGirt, Vazquez, Prime DLH (and not prime Pea), Ramirez, etc. Floyd did it against much lesser opponents.

Now onto your point about Pernell being knocked down.

Going on that thought, the fighter with the greatest defense ever MUST be Oliver McCall. He has never touched the canvas, dispite fighting Lewis, Holmes, Tucker, Douglas, Norris, Seldon, Maskaev, etc. Though we ALL know that aint true. Ability to not be knocked down messures chin..not defense.

And if you really have seen ANY of those knockdowns, you would know that most (all except the one vs Mayweather) were flash knockdowns where Pernell was offbalance from contorting himself in every which way slipping punches. None had anything to do with his defense.

Now onto the losses.

Well, the Ramirez one was a shut out...cant deny that one. Only problem was it was a shutout WIN for Whitaker. This fight is considered by most to be one of the worst robberies in the HISTORY OF THE SPORT (right up there with RJJ at the olympics...god that one still makes me sick).

Then the Chavez draw...go to the main page of this section of the forums and find the Whitaker - Ramirez post...we speak at length about the Chavez fight. Then go to the last page and watch the fight and score it for yourself (I posted the whole fight...even read my round by round). That fight was a blowout win for Sweet Pea.

Then there is the DLH fight. Where Whitaker threw more punches, landed more punches (all at a higher %) and even dropped Oscar once. Tho still did not get the decision. That fight WAS a close fight, I will admit that, BUT a clear UD for Sweet Pea...if the fight was scored correctly (Clean punching, defense, effective aggression and ring generalship).

Then there was the Tito loss (in which Tito won by far..impossible to argue that). Which was an old, past it, drug abused, right out of rehab Pernell Whitaker...that was not Sweet Pea. And he still gave Tito hell in that fight.

So if we look at it that way....

That is 15 years without a VALID loss. That is longer than Mayweather's career.

That is 42 fights...again longer than Mayweather's career.

Now your question of us thinking Pernell was perfect. NO, he was a very light hitter, who used his blazing speed and terrific accuracy to make up for it. He also tended to play with fighters much lower than his level, making alot blowout fights look closer than they should have.

And again, I personally HATE to do posts like this, because as I said, Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But just because I like the guy, that doesnt make me blind.

I hope this helped further educate you in this fine sport we call boxing. Now as I said, go to youtube, find some Sweet Pea fights. You will thank me.

In fact here is a fantastic highlight video of him to get ya started.

BORKED

And your welcome.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:38 PM   #48
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

Here's another good video

BORKED


Here's a link to another
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:40 PM   #49
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
Spadafora right?
Yes, but every time, I say the name?? It's like having to re-argue incident. The bottom line?? Floyd got outboxed by a slick southpaw and a Prime Whitaker would TAP THAT ASS IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:45 PM   #50
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by igotJUIC3
I mean tell me how can you say P is smarter? Floyd has NO losses NO knock downs.....how has he not been smart in approaching his fights? What makes P smarter....i dont understand that...there is no fight which can state either was smarter than each other, they both were brilliant in the ring.

Now faster..ok...i wont bother with that argument because they both are fast.

You guys kill me with this WAY better defense ....the man has been knock down multiple occasions...now im not saying that means his defense aint great it was...but WAY better than Floyd who has fought tough opponents and took his fare share of punches has no knock downs..even when Castillo was giving it to him in the first fight....i understand P is a All time great...but man the dude had his flaws.
Every man has flaws!! A prime Whitaker is at 35 not 40 and there? Whitaker dogs Floyd. Foyd AVOIDED the toughest opponents at 35, 40, and 47 crafting an undefeated record, including the said southpaw that whipped his ass in the gym at 35.

Floyd's greatness, is yet to be PROVEN!! Let's see him face the Hatton's, SSM, Cotto, and Margarito winner, then tell us how wonderful, Mr. Wonderful is.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

Floyd is probably the greatest 130 pounder of all time (you can make a case for Arguello though)

At 135, he had a questionable decision against Castillo, but came back strong, so good resume at lightweight.

At 140, he beat Corley, Gatti, and Bruselles - hardly world beaters.

At 147, he beat Judah (who was coming off a loss) and Baldomir (the Ring champion, but not a great fighter). Yes, he won the IBF and WBC, but he is not a great welterweight.

At 154, he has beaten De La Hoya who is a future HOFer so great win there.


Bottom line, Floyd has a long way to go to become a legendary great like Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Armstrong, Pep, Greb, or Benny Leonard. He has only fought 1 great fighter (De La Hoya) and won, so credit there, but compared to the guys I mentioned, his resume is no where near as great.

He is a future hall of famer already, and with wins over Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, and Margarito/Williams, he will have proved to be a legendary great in my book.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:14 PM   #52
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blocky
The Pea was definitely a ****ing magician, don't get me wrong - but the Oscar comparison is null and void - the Oscar that Pea fought was primarily a one handed fighter who hadn't really gone through the tough competition that he had done by the time he got to Floyd.

Pea lacked severely in power, Floyd showed in both the Judah and Oscar fights that he can take a punch as well as slip it

Floyd has faster hands, you guys can disbelieve that all you want - while Pernell fires more flurries, especially to the body, Floyd would put most of his opponents down if he had a chance to do it.

Floyd isn't going to be slipped all night like De La Hoya among others were in that clip above, Floyd has sharper punches than anyone the Pea faced.

Pea would lose a decision to Floyd, and I don't even like Floyd Mayweather, I just see the truth.
The Oscar that fought Sweet Pea was faster, lighter on his toes, and fresher.

Last edited by concrete sledge; 02-28-2006 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:29 PM   #53
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sues2nd
Okay, go and watch Sweet Pea's fights, like I suggested, but let me answer your posts first.

Lets start with the ring smarts thing. Not many fighters were better at making in-fight adjustments to their gameplan. Go watch the Chavez fight...watch Pernell spend the fight, fighting off his jab retreating, and EVERYTIME Chavez attempted to go on the defensive, even for a second, Sweet Pea immediately turned aggressor. Just one example.

Plus, with experience comes wisdom (sorry to get all fortune cookie on ya). Pernell has fought more fights...fought more championship fights...fought better competition...held more titles...etc. He KNEW what to do in any situation. He was a master at outthinking his opponent.

Okay, now onto the next thing. Yes, Floyd is fast...very fast. And it is close. But if you watch the speed on Pernell's jabs and combinations, you can see the difference. And thats without mentioning how fast Pernell moved defensively, his upper body and head movement was ridiculously fast.

Which leads me to your next thing.

Pernell Whitaker is widely considered the BEST DEFENSIVE FIGHTER OF ALL TIME! Floyd is widely considered one of the best defensive fighters on this generation (I have him 2nd or third behind Hopkins and about even with Wright..with Toney slightly behind the rest of them). And while Pernell proved that defense against fighters named Chavez, Nelson, McGirt, Vazquez, Prime DLH (and not prime Pea), Ramirez, etc. Floyd did it against much lesser opponents.

Now onto your point about Pernell being knocked down.

Going on that thought, the fighter with the greatest defense ever MUST be Oliver McCall. He has never touched the canvas, dispite fighting Lewis, Holmes, Tucker, Douglas, Norris, Seldon, Maskaev, etc. Though we ALL know that aint true. Ability to not be knocked down messures chin..not defense.

And if you really have seen ANY of those knockdowns, you would know that most (all except the one vs Mayweather) were flash knockdowns where Pernell was offbalance from contorting himself in every which way slipping punches. None had anything to do with his defense.

Now onto the losses.

Well, the Ramirez one was a shut out...cant deny that one. Only problem was it was a shutout WIN for Whitaker. This fight is considered by most to be one of the worst robberies in the HISTORY OF THE SPORT (right up there with RJJ at the olympics...god that one still makes me sick).

Then the Chavez draw...go to the main page of this section of the forums and find the Whitaker - Ramirez post...we speak at length about the Chavez fight. Then go to the last page and watch the fight and score it for yourself (I posted the whole fight...even read my round by round). That fight was a blowout win for Sweet Pea.

Then there is the DLH fight. Where Whitaker threw more punches, landed more punches (all at a higher %) and even dropped Oscar once. Tho still did not get the decision. That fight WAS a close fight, I will admit that, BUT a clear UD for Sweet Pea...if the fight was scored correctly (Clean punching, defense, effective aggression and ring generalship).

Then there was the Tito loss (in which Tito won by far..impossible to argue that). Which was an old, past it, drug abused, right out of rehab Pernell Whitaker...that was not Sweet Pea. And he still gave Tito hell in that fight.

So if we look at it that way....

That is 15 years without a VALID loss. That is longer than Mayweather's career.

That is 42 fights...again longer than Mayweather's career.

Now your question of us thinking Pernell was perfect. NO, he was a very light hitter, who used his blazing speed and terrific accuracy to make up for it. He also tended to play with fighters much lower than his level, making alot blowout fights look closer than they should have.

And again, I personally HATE to do posts like this, because as I said, Floyd is one of my favorite fighters. But just because I like the guy, that doesnt make me blind.

I hope this helped further educate you in this fine sport we call boxing. Now as I said, go to youtube, find some Sweet Pea fights. You will thank me.

In fact here is a fantastic highlight video of him to get ya started.

BORKED

And your welcome.
Man your obviously a big P fan....but fact is there losses no matter how you cut it....You said P is regarded as the best defense and floyd is second....man come on 1st and second come on man they void each other basically if there that good....you gave me one fight in which P i guess shows his ring smarts and im sure he has more but floyd makes great adjustments as well....case and point Castillo which was close but he did what he had to in the judges eyes which is all that matters, even against Zab he got jumped on in the early rounds and still swept the later rounds for a UD, against oscar HE VOIDED THE LEFT HOOK all the while making an aggressive Oscar looking old....(he really beat ODH UD IMO should not be SD).

It would be a good ass fight but Floyd is one of the best all around technicians not just now but ever...not THE best but one of them....and that is not said just by me most analys concur as i think you would to...so how Pernell just out right will beat Floyd....i dont see nor imagine.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:59 PM   #54
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by igotJUIC3
Man your obviously a big P fan....but fact is there losses no matter how you cut it....You said P is regarded as the best defense and floyd is second....man come on 1st and second come on man they void each other basically if there that good....you gave me one fight in which P i guess shows his ring smarts and im sure he has more but floyd makes great adjustments as well....case and point Castillo which was close but he did what he had to in the judges eyes which is all that matters, even against Zab he got jumped on in the early rounds and still swept the later rounds for a UD, against oscar HE VOIDED THE LEFT HOOK all the while making an aggressive Oscar looking old....(he really beat ODH UD IMO should not be SD).

It would be a good ass fight but Floyd is one of the best all around technicians not just now but ever...not THE best but one of them....and that is not said just by me most analys concur as i think you would to...so how Pernell just out right will beat Floyd....i dont see nor imagine.
DO YOU EVEN READ!!!

I said Pernell is considered the best defensive fighter EVER....in other words of ALL TIME!

I said Floyd is the 2nd best RIGHT NOW. In other words current fighters (Hops defense is much better).

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There is a HUGE gap between Pernell's defense and Floyd's...its ridiculous to even say different.

I really dont think you have ever seen Sweet Pea fight (maybe the ODLH one....but thats about it.).

Go back and really read my post. Your not making sense.

Oh and to say a robbery loss is still a loss is also stupid. By your logic, I could go and steal your car and it would be considered mine. Make some sense......AND GO WATCH A FEW WHITAKER FIGHTS BEFORE YOU EMBARRASS YOURSELF AGAIN!
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:39 PM   #55
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blocky
The Pea was definitely a ****ing magician, don't get me wrong - but the Oscar comparison is null and void - the Oscar that Pea fought was primarily a one handed fighter who hadn't really gone through the tough competition that he had done by the time he got to Floyd.

Pea lacked severely in power, Floyd showed in both the Judah and Oscar fights that he can take a punch as well as slip it

Floyd has faster hands, you guys can disbelieve that all you want - while Pernell fires more flurries, especially to the body, Floyd would put most of his opponents down if he had a chance to do it.

Floyd isn't going to be slipped all night like De La Hoya among others were in that clip above, Floyd has sharper punches than anyone the Pea faced.

Pea would lose a decision to Floyd, and I don't even like Floyd Mayweather, I just see the truth.
Oscar has always been a one handed fighter. Not just against against Whitaker 10 years ago, but also against Mayweather 2 months ago. De La Hoya's right hand has never been a potent weapon at any point in his career.

The De La Hoya of 10 years ago was not as experienced as the version who fought Mayweather, but his stamina was much better. He always closed the show when going into the late rounds, especially against Molina and Gonzalez. His handspeed was faster 10 years ago.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:30 PM   #56
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

Robbi, sues2nd, and Sweet Pea.. there's no way to convince these guys that Whitaker would beat Floyd. They see Floyd's resume with the 0 losses and titles in 5 weight classes and see how Floyd dominated many fighters, but they don't see what made Whitaker's career amazing and how good his skills were against great competition because he's a fighter "of the past" (the 90's? ).

I'm not gonna talk about their skills because they have already been discussed enough in this thread. Let me just compare their careers. Floyd's career so far doesn't even come close to how impressive Whitaker's career was. It's not Floyd's fault that he didn't have the same level of competition as Whitaker yet, but he will be able to improve his legacy if he continues to fight, especially since the future of the 140-154 weight divisions is looking good.

Whitaker's career is unbelievable. It can easily be said that he didn't lose a fight until getting KO'ed by Tito, way past his prime. There's no point of mentioning the Ramirez and Chavez fights.. just plain robberies. Floyd is lucky his fights were never scored completely wrong (except for the Tom Kaczmarek score in the Oscar fight). The Oscar loss is one of the most impressive parts of Whitaker's career. Whether you think he won or lost isn't important, just the fact that the fight is controversial and was very close should be recognized as a major accomplishment for him and his legacy. Whether you think that the Oscar that already held multiple titles in multiple divisions and had a very strong/successful amateur career was "green" or not doesn't matter. Anyone with a brain can understand that Oscar was way way way more prime than Whitaker was and he lost the fight in many people's eyes/had a close fight in everybody's eyes.

Floyd's legacy doesn't compare to Whitaker's yet. You can say his skills do compare to him, but I think Whitaker did most things at least slightly better than PBF. Anyways, I think PBF would lose a very clear decision, but I didn't want this post to be about their skills. I just wanted to compare their careers.. even though someone like blocky still wouldn't understand. Oh well.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:41 PM   #57
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Good post, except Whitaker didn't get KO'd by Tito, he lost by decision.
God damnitt. Right when I thought I was sounding smart I **** up on this.. I just watched the whole fight on youtube a few months ago too.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

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Originally Posted by huki
God damnitt. Right when I thought I was sounding smart I **** up on this.. I just watched the whole fight on youtube a few months ago too.
LOL, you said it well homie!
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:58 AM   #59
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Default Re: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd mayweather jr.

First, watch Sweet P vs Chavez.

Then, watch PBF vs Castillo I.

PBF couldn't even beat Chavez's sparing partner.

Sweet P UD 12 PBF
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