Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

Addie · 09-20-2010, 05:59 AM

At this stage in his career, without considering the potential of him winning a title at 140lbs, do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG? This may depend on how you scored his fights with Manny Pacquiao, and what criteria you use to distinguish the great fighters from the all-time great fighters. Be sure to explain your reasoning.

Discuss.

Panthers89 · 09-20-2010, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

At this stage in his career, without considering the potential of him winning a title at 140lbs, do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG? This may depend on how you scored his fights with Manny Pacquiao, and what criteria you use to distinguish the great fighters from the all-time great fighters. Be sure to explain your reasoning.

Discuss.

i wouldnt say ATG, but at the very least a Great Warrior

Pachilles · 09-20-2010, 06:51 AM

I dont think it matters how you score the Pacquiao fights, they were so close that they deserve the same amount of credibilty, which is ATG credibility due to their already impressive resumes and the talent, ability and champion toughness on display. Like every single other ATG fighter ever, he has the early padded record and he has the win over a past prime great Barrera, the very close to great Casamayor and two wins over the prime and very good Juan Diaz.

The talent and ability is clear to be seen and his resume proves it, imo. The Paquiao fights solidify the proof

Addie · 09-20-2010, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachilles

I dont think it matters how you score the Pacquiao fights, they were so close that they deserve the same amount of credibilty, which is ATG credibility due to their already impressive resumes and the talent, ability and champion toughness on display. Like every single other ATG fighter ever, he has the early padded record and he has the win over a past prime great Barrera, the very close to great Casamayor and two wins over the prime and very good Juan Diaz.

The talent and ability is clear to be seen and his resume proves it, imo. The Paquiao fights solidify the proof

Barrera and Casamayor ceased to be great by the time Marquez fought them.

I'm underwhelmed by his win column, really. I think he has work to do.

spud1 · 09-20-2010, 07:00 AM

Hall of famer.

He needs to avenge the loss to john first of all, the win was disputed but it will speak volumes.

I'd say he needs a few more wins at lightweight in dominant fashion.

Godfather · 09-20-2010, 07:01 AM

The term 'All-Time Great' gets thrown around way too often in my opinion.

Addie · 09-20-2010, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

The term 'All-Time Great' gets thrown around way too often in my opinion.

What fighters who have campaigned in the last 10 years do you think qualify?

Pachilles · 09-20-2010, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

Barrera and Casamayor ceased to be great by the time Marquez fought them.

I know, my point is though it is very much the case with most ATG fighters. Calzaghe gets no credit for the Hopkins and Jones wins. However, where would Marciano rank without his wins over past prime Louis and Walcott? Certainly not top 5 ATG HW

Godfather · 09-20-2010, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

What fighters who have campaigned in the last 10 years do you think qualify?

Not too sure. Pacquiao is the only one that I would definitely consider an ATG.

Addie · 09-20-2010, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Not too sure. Pacquiao is the only one that I would definitely consider an ATG.

Ouch.

Godfather · 09-20-2010, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

Ouch.

Who do you think qualifies? And how many fighters would you label ATG?

Addie · 09-20-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Who do you think qualifies? And how many fighters would you label ATG?

That have campaigned in the last 10 years who would probably make my top 100.

Manny Pacquiao
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales

Godfather · 09-20-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

That have campaigned in the last 10 years who would probably make my top 100.

Manny Pacquiao
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales

That's fair enough if you consider everyone in a top 100 list to be ATG's. I haven't got a p4p list but I reckon I'd only consider the top 35/40 to be ATG's. If you have too many the term becomes meaningless.

lora · 09-20-2010, 07:52 AM

he's a very good fighter, but he's totally overrated in my eyes on this board compared to a lot of the lesser supported fighters from the last Mexican golden age at the lighterweights(60s-70s)without even getting into the more obscure, yet worthy fighters from earlier era's than that.

Of course that's understandable overall because he's a top active fighter, but still.

Panthers89 · 09-20-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

That's fair enough if you consider everyone in a top 100 list to be ATG's. I haven't got a p4p list but I reckon I'd only consider the top 35/40 to be ATG's. If you have too many the term becomes meaningless.

i second that, its just like when you call someone who is just good or very good a "Great" fighter, the fighters from the golden age like Charley burley, ezzard charles, and jersey joe walcott were "Great" fighters. They are throwing ATG out there so much that its losing its value

View Poll Results: Juan Manuel Marquez: Great fighter or All-Time Great fighter?
Yes, I consider him to be an ATG	35	53.85%
No, he's just very good.	30	46.15%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

09-20-2010, 05:59 AM	#1
Addie MAB. East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK, England Posts: 36,388 vCash: 842	Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG At this stage in his career, without considering the potential of him winning a title at 140lbs, do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG? This may depend on how you scored his fights with Manny Pacquiao, and what criteria you use to distinguish the great fighters from the all-time great fighters. Be sure to explain your reasoning. Discuss.
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09-20-2010, 06:51 AM	#3
Pachilles Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 4,480 vCash: 75	Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG I dont think it matters how you score the Pacquiao fights, they were so close that they deserve the same amount of credibilty, which is ATG credibility due to their already impressive resumes and the talent, ability and champion toughness on display. Like every single other ATG fighter ever, he has the early padded record and he has the win over a past prime great Barrera, the very close to great Casamayor and two wins over the prime and very good Juan Diaz. The talent and ability is clear to be seen and his resume proves it, imo. The Paquiao fights solidify the proof
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09-20-2010, 07:00 AM	#5
spud1 HAWK TIME!!!! East Side Guru Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 8,190 vCash: 75	Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG Hall of famer. He needs to avenge the loss to john first of all, the win was disputed but it will speak volumes. I'd say he needs a few more wins at lightweight in dominant fashion.
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09-20-2010, 07:01 AM	#6
Godfather I put the G in God East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: I bomb atomically Posts: 10,364 vCash: 75	Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG The term 'All-Time Great' gets thrown around way too often in my opinion.
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09-20-2010, 07:52 AM	#14
lora Fighting Zapata East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5,455 vCash: 500	Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG he's a very good fighter, but he's totally overrated in my eyes on this board compared to a lot of the lesser supported fighters from the last Mexican golden age at the lighterweights(60s-70s)without even getting into the more obscure, yet worthy fighters from earlier era's than that. Of course that's understandable overall because he's a top active fighter, but still.
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