P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

[Rumsfeld]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I would be interested to see yours (which i'm betting will be just as controversial as PP's).

I'm interested in seeing frankenfrank's, even though I won't include it in the survey.

[teeto]

It's be so much easier for me to do a list of who i think are the best fighters p4p of all time, but the greatest? I'll have to think hard.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Rumsfeld

That's a fair take, but doesn't this violate the spirit of the original meaning of the term "pound for pound"?

Maybe, I don't know. If you mean that head to head version, who would win if all fighters were the same size, that's basically an impossible task.

[RockysSplitNose]

Probably don't beleive me but I have never sat down to do a P4P ATG Top 10 (and some of you will probably say you can tell when you see my list haha) - I've thrown this together as a starter as I think I know how I see the 10 going down.....I think?? But I'll probably change it about numerous times just like I do my heavyweight top 10 - hell here goes:

No.1 Harry Greb
No.2 Sugar Ray Robinson
No.3 Sam Langford
No.4 Henry Armstrong
No.5 Bob Fitzsimmons
No.6 Ezzard Charles
No.7 Charley Burley
No.8 Archie Moore
No.9 Roy Jones
No.10 Roberto Duran

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by teeto

It's be so much easier for me to do a list of who i think are the best fighters p4p of all time, but the greatest? I'll have to think hard.

I'm confused.

Are you saying a list of he can beat him and so on versus a list of the greatest?

[Rumsfeld]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Maybe, I don't know. If you mean that head to head version, who would win if all fighters were the same size, that's basically an impossible task.

Well, I think this is all subjective in the end.

But yes, who would win if fighters were the same size. I think fighters who dominated a particular weight class for a number of years while spending his entire career at said weight class do tend to get penalized around here.

I'm in no way claiming I'm above this, as I think I fall for the same traps.

On another note entirely.....

If Pacquiao and Mayweather do fight, and Pacquiao wins, I wonder if the results from this survey would be considerably different?

[silenc]

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Floyd Mayweather
4.Pernell WHitaker
5.Sugar Ray Leonard
6.Ezzard Charles
7.Henry Armstrong
8.Willie Pep
9.Roberto Duran
10.Roy Jones Jr.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by Rumsfeld

Well, I think this is all subjective in the end.

But yes, who would win if fighters were the same size. I think fighters who dominated a particular weight class for a number of years while spending his entire career at said weight class do tend to get penalized around here.

I'm in no way claiming I'm above this, as I think I fall for the same traps.

On another note entirely.....

If Pacquiao and Mayweather do fight, and Pacquiao wins, I wonder if the results from this survey would be considerably different?

for me Pacquiao is knocking on the door definately - certainly one of the best pound fro pound I think I've seen in my own lifetime I think

[Rumsfeld]

Originally Posted by silenc

2.Muhammad Ali
3.Floyd Mayweather

I don't get this.

If you have Floyd way up there at #3, then you're obviously not putting too much stock in resume and accomplishment, which means you must be judging primarily on raw skill and talent.

If that's the case, and you are indeed putting more stock into fundamental skills than the body of work, then why not just place Floyd ahead of Ali, too?

[Rumsfeld]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

for me Pacquiao is knocking on the door definately - certainly one of the best pound fro pound I think I've seen in my own lifetime I think

I think he is knocking on the door as well, but it's hard to rate a fighter THIS highly before his career is finished--especially since in Pacquiao's case the biggest fight of his career has been looming on the horizon for over a year.

[teeto]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

I'm confused.

Are you saying a list of he can beat him and so on versus a list of the greatest?

Nah i just meant a list of who i think are the best, it would be a list that could be heavily scrutinised because the criteria would be probably non-justifiable, but nonetheless, just a list simply of 'these to me are the best to have done it', some of it would likely be based on speculation, as some fighters who are more proven would be below those that were less so. It would be a strongly opinionated list beasically, we would probably all be able to do those. But when we're talking p4p the greatest ten fighters, which i'm pretty sure this thread is about, then we're talking resumes for me, and i need to really think hard, because there's many aspects, including beating larger men, resume in general across weights, how good wins were because of the opponent's condition at the time etc. I'll just have to come back before the deadline, not prepared yet.

[PetethePrince]

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Archie Moore
7. Roberto Duran
8. Benny Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Muhammad Ali

It's going to be criminal to see Muhammad Ali not make this list. Yeah, I know he's my #10 (Could be higher) but I know will have Bob Fitzsimmons somewhere on this list but not Ali when we all know Ali is probably twenty times the fighter.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by teeto

Nah i just meant a list of who i think are the best, it would be a list that could be heavily scrutinised because the criteria would be probably non-justifiable, but nonetheless, just a list simply of 'these to me are the best to have done it', some of it would likely be based on speculation, as some fighters who are more proven would be below those that were less so. It would be a strongly opinionated list beasically, we would probably all be able to do those. But when we're talking p4p the greatest ten fighters, which i'm pretty sure this thread is about, then we're talking resumes for me, and i need to really think hard, because there's many aspects, including beating larger men, resume in general across weights, how good wins were because of the opponent's condition at the time etc. I'll just have to come back before the deadline, not prepared yet.

I think their both the same. Nothing magical about P4P except for the fact of eliminating weight differences. Because after all Joe Louis would kill Sugar Ray Robinson... doesn't mean he's the better fighter. Sounds like you're over-analyzing things. I've been there before though, it can get really tricky.

[PhillyPhan69]

1. SRR (Sugar Ray Robinson)
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Joe Louis
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Charley Burley

[teeto]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

I think their both the same. Nothing magical about P4P except for the fact of eliminating weight differences. Because after all Joe Louis would kill Sugar Ray Robinson... doesn't mean he's the better fighter. Sounds like you're over-analyzing things. I've been there before though, it can get really tricky.

Nah i'm not, because what i said was the 'best' p4p is different from the 'greatest' p4p, ie resumes. I can say that Willie Pep is one of the very best boxers ever p4p, but to me it's wrong to have him very high on a greatest p4p list, because there are a lot of others with greater resumes. If you don't get what i mean i'll just have to explain it better, but i definitely know what i mean and they're definitely not the same to me.