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Old 11-18-2007, 11:04 PM   #91
sweet_scientist
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

I think a fighter being hurt should be the gauge here, rather than whether he went down or not.

Going down can be caused from things like balance as well as being hurt.

E.g. Duran went down twice from Dejesus hooks, but he was never hurt in either case. I wouldn't hold it against him and claim his chin wasn't first class simply because he went down. It was more a balance issue than anything really, (though I'm not denying for a second that DeJesus had good power).

On the flip side, Hector Camacho didn't go down against Rosario, but his legs were trembling all over the place and he ran for his life to survive the fight. THAT to me shows a weaker chin than does Duran's getting dumped on his ass twice and coming back and resuming the attack.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:25 PM   #92
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Its not all about being hurt combined with the knockdown. Duran maybe wasn't hurt against De Jesus, but landing on his ass twice over the first two fights with De Jesus works against him. Thumping left hooks put him on his trunks.

The type of knockdown I don't take too serious, De La Hoya's against Whitaker. Slip/punch knockdown with no damaging effects. Some referees might have called it a slip. Action replays from above clearly showed De La Hoya's foot was giving way at the same time the punch landed. If the punch never landed, more than likely De La Hoya would not have went down. Correctly scored a knockdown.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:30 PM   #93
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by payaso1831
SO if I fight 1 fight and don't get dropped or knocked out because im moving around the ring like Ali I have a great chin????.

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Old 11-18-2007, 11:39 PM   #94
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by payaso1831
By your logic against chavez SRL has an even weaker chin since he was TKO'd by a featherfisted puncher Camacho....

I ofcourse know that this was because of age but since you can't seem to consider that in chavez case why can you use it for SRL?
You really don't understand do you?. Chavez had a brilliant chin, but he was knocked down against Randall and Tszyu. Some other fighters don't get knocked off their feet, no matter if they are 25 and in their prime, or washed up at 35. Thats the difference between someone like Chavez and McCullough. Both had similar styles, they came forward and took two to land one.

Arguably McCullough fought harder punchers, even though he competed at lighter weights. I'd say Hamed and Morales, featherweight and super-bantamweight respectively, were bigger punchers in those divisions than any opponent Chavez faced in the divisions he fought.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:48 PM   #95
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
You really don't understand do you?. Chavez had a brilliant chin, but he was knocked down against Randall and Tszyu. Some other fighters don't get knocked off their feet, no matter if they are 25 and in their prime, or washed up at 35. Thats the difference between someone like Chavez and McCullough. Both had similar styles, they came forward and took two to land one.

Arguably McCullough fought harder punchers, even though he competed at lighter weights. I'd say Hamed and Morales, featherweight and super-bantamweight respectively, were bigger punchers in those divisions than any opponent Chavez faced in the divisions he fought.
Rosario was one of, if not the biggest lightweight punchers ever. Mayweather was also a huge hitter. Not to mention De La Hoya, LaPorte etc etc. He faced some pretty big hitters
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:56 PM   #96
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe
Rosario was one of, if not the biggest lightweight punchers ever. Mayweather was also a huge hitter. Not to mention De La Hoya, LaPorte etc etc. He faced some pretty big hitters
True. Probably Rosario comes closest. Hamed hits harder at featherweight than Rosario at lightweight though, IMO.

McCullough's chin never let him down when past his prime, the same can't be said for Chavez.

Remember, Chavez had an outstanding chin. Just not top bracket. I'm being very picky here, I know.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:05 AM   #97
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
True. Probably Rosario comes closest. Hamed hits harder at featherweight than Rosario at lightweight though, IMO.

McCullough's chin never let him down when past his prime, the same can't be said for Chavez.

Remember, Chavez had an outstanding chin. Just not top bracket. I'm being very picky here, I know.
Understood. Top bracket consists of fighters like Hagler, LaMotta, Chuvalo, McCullogh, McCall? Fighters who were never floored? I would probably agree though that Hamed P4P hit harder then Rosario.
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:09 AM   #98
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
I don't think criticizing Napoles for being stunned against a heavy handed, larger fighter is fair. We never saw Hagler take light heavyweight punches.
Of course it's fair if we are talking about the ability to take shots. It affords us comparative ability.

I am not alone in confusing the argument. Determining "best chins" is a complicated matter and the more variables you factor in, the more confused it gets. Any argument that gets hypothetical here shouldn't be offered (ex. Hagler against a LHW) because it can go on forever.

If we simplify the argument by setting parameters, it would help. We should look at what was and resist hypothesizing.

1. Stoppage losses count, if it is the result of head trauma from punches, not for a dislocated shoulder.
2. Some leeway should be giving for the fighter who over ~35. By the same measure, the fighter who takes monster shots over 35 should get recognition.
3. A fighter was out of shape and got hurt, stopped or knocked down? It should count against him.
4. A fighter chose to rise in weight and fight a banger and gets hurt, stopped or knocked down? It should count against him.

Other variables to consider is how many bangers faced, shots landing flush, and the reaction when big shots from big punchers landed flush.

Sweet Scientist's assertion that being hurt but not going down should be considered sensibly is well-taken...
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:51 PM   #99
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by payaso1831
Ofcourse not moving up in weight should count against him.... Let say Chavez retired before randal, would we not say he had a legendary chin? Obviosly hypothetical factors do play in
If Chavez never went down in 90 fights, we would say he had a legendary chin. And there would be evidence to prove it, namely, that he never went down in 90 fights, and he fought a fair amount of good punchers -Rosario at the top of them.

To then second guess his standing by saying, "well, De La Hoya would have stopped him had they fought" would be balderdash.
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:23 PM   #100
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by payaso1831
Thank you... Finally someone with some sense..

Look im not saying Marvin did not have a great chin but as I stated in another chin list he did not move in weight and retired at 33 so to compare him with people that were in far more wars than him, did move in weight classes and did not retire that young is not fair..
Marvin's chin withstood
flush
shots
from
Hearns'
Right (uppercut and a cross) when
Hearns was fresh
and in his physical prime at 26 years old.

--If Hagler had one fight in his total career and accomplished that feat, it should still give you pause.

He also took shots from Mugabi -right on the sniffer and right on the kisser. Repeatedly. Nothing happened. His head steamed and he walked right on in. Throw in guys like Roldan, Lee, and Briscoe and Cyclone Hart who was murderous and you have to think this through.

Not many guys took shots better than heavier punchers.

I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt with hypotheticals.
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:30 PM   #101
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Marcos Villasana and Juan LaPorte deserve honourable mentions when discussing all-time great chins. I cannot recall ever seeing either man truly hurt or dropped by a single punch, and I have seen these two eat some absolute bombs over the years. Eder Jofre and Salvador Sanchez come to mind as well, both men had outstanding chins.
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:34 PM   #102
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging B(_)LL
Marcos Villasana and Juan LaPorte deserve honourable mentions when discussing all-time great chins. I cannot recall ever seeing either man truly hurt or dropped by a single punch, and I have seen these two eat some absolute bombs over the years. Eder Jofre and Salvador Sanchez come to mind as well, both men had outstanding chins.
Fantastic additions. LaPorte given his resume is definitely on the level of Hagler and co.
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Old 11-20-2007, 04:52 AM   #103
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Billy Miske would be also a good choice IMO...

Last edited by Luigi1985; 11-17-2006 at 02:28 PM.
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