Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-27-2010, 05:59 PM   #166
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
No answer. Predictable. There is no reason for having that large a gap between Duran and Ali.
Actually, the tenor of your posts regarding Ali confirm that you are not open to discussing it with an open mind. The short answer is that in my opinion, the following fighters were greater than "The Greatest"...

1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Armstrong
4. Charles
5. Duran
6. Moore
7. Walker
8. Benny Leonard
9. Pep
10. Burley
11. Ross
12. Ali

By my calculations, Ali is the greatest heavyweight. He is not near the greatest fighter who ever lived.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-27-2010, 06:00 PM   #167
teeto
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Team Ireland Manor, Easing Pabuiao into the life of managing the GOAT
Posts: 14,048
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

I'm going to expand on my earlier comments now. Notice i've already said that when commenting on who i think were the best fighters ever, is not directly representative of who i rate as the greatest. Anyway, from film, the three best fighters ever for me are Robinson, then Ali and Duran. That's how good Ali was in my opinion. I'm not particularly a fan either, not at all actually. That's an unbiased opinion. There's nothing else i can say on it though, i said earlier on this thread that when it comes to me simply saying who the best were, it's not backed up by resume, it's utlimately an opinion, and i can't justify that, so there's no point in me debating it. Just an opinion. A pretty strong one. Anyway, when it comes to greatness, the likes of McLarnin etc need looking up. And anyone who has Willie Pep in their list and not Ali must have an agenda.
teeto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:01 PM   #168
manbearpig
A Scottish Noob
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 1185
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

You've STILL not given me an answer. What does Duran have that puts him so far ahead of Ali?
manbearpig is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:03 PM   #169
manbearpig
A Scottish Noob
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 1185
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

And I'm not being a dick about Duran. He's undeniably great. I just think he's more or less on a par with Ali (I rate Ali higher).
manbearpig is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:03 PM   #170
TheGreatA
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,098
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

It's not that he's far away, there just happens to be 6 men in between.
TheGreatA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:04 PM   #171
teeto
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Team Ireland Manor, Easing Pabuiao into the life of managing the GOAT
Posts: 14,048
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
And I'm not being a dick about Duran. He's undeniably great. I just think he's more or less on a par with Ali (I rate Ali higher).
I agree.
teeto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:05 PM   #172
teeto
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Team Ireland Manor, Easing Pabuiao into the life of managing the GOAT
Posts: 14,048
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
It's not that he's far away, there just happens to be 6 men in between.
I agree with this as well. If you see 6 men in between that's fine, because there are at LEAST 6 men in the running and worthy. But any talk of him not being on the level as a fighter is crazy imo and elitist-agenda driven.
teeto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:11 PM   #173
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by teeto View Post
And anyone who has Willie Pep in their list and not Ali must have an agenda.
And what do you suppose that "agenda" would be?
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:13 PM   #174
TheGreatA
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,098
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
You've STILL not given me an answer. What does Duran have that puts him so far ahead of Ali?
Why should he say anything to you? It's you who challenged his position, and it's your job to make the case why you believe Ali is greater (or on par). Perhaps then you will get a response.

No offense but most of the posts I've seen of you are pretty much "call-outs" on other posters without any actual boxing discussion involved. It's very, very easy to state that others are wrong and that Ali>>>>>>>Duran or so on. Many posters here deal with that on a daily basis and are not going to elaborate on their views every single time someone disputes them, unless it's worth their time.

If you want to read why Stonehands89 holds Duran in high regard, read his "God of War" article on Duran.
TheGreatA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:13 PM   #175
manbearpig
A Scottish Noob
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 1185
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
And what do you suppose that "agenda" would be?
You think he's overrated due to hype - you said as much yourself.
manbearpig is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:13 PM   #176
teeto
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Team Ireland Manor, Easing Pabuiao into the life of managing the GOAT
Posts: 14,048
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
And what do you suppose that "agenda" would be?
I just highlighted it in post 172, that's the way it seems to me anyway, either that or favouritism.
teeto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:17 PM   #177
manbearpig
A Scottish Noob
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,521
vCash: 1185
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Why should he say anything to you? It's you who challenged his position, and it's your job to make the case why you believe Ali is greater (or on par). Perhaps then you will get a response.

No offense but most of the posts I've seen of you are pretty much "call-outs" on other posters without any actual boxing discussion involved. It's very, very easy to state that others are wrong and that Ali>>>>>>>Duran or so on. Many posters here deal with that on a daily basis and are not going to elaborate on their views every single time someone disputes them, unless it's worth their time.

If you want to read why Stonehands89 holds Duran in high regard, read his "God of War" article on Duran.
I've said already. Ali has the better list of wins (in my opinion), Duran has the better single win, and a comparable list of wins, and I don't see a marked difference in talent based on film. I think if one is to have Duran in a top ten, Ali should be there also. I'm yet to hear a refutal.
manbearpig is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:22 PM   #178
teeto
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Team Ireland Manor, Easing Pabuiao into the life of managing the GOAT
Posts: 14,048
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
I've said already. Ali has the better list of wins (in my opinion), Duran has the better single win, and a comparable list of wins, and I don't see a marked difference in talent based on film. I think if one is to have Duran in a top ten, Ali should be there also. I'm yet to hear a refutal.
The Duran argument i don't know about, it's there or there about. But Pep? He's getting a pass the way i see it. No doubt i'll be bombarded with an over-dramatised post detailing how amazing Pep was, which i'm well aware of, being a student of boxing history myself. He's one of the best ever, head to head and for ability. But when we're talking resume that solidifies your ranking, i don't understand Pep>Ali, it's madness to me. People have a problem with Ali's high ranking, i'm very suspicious as to whether that is born of Ali's fame, because it looks like Pep's getting the free pass on this board.
teeto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:22 PM   #179
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
You've STILL not given me an answer. What does Duran have that puts him so far ahead of Ali?
No one's ducking you, so take it easy. I have a list of the top 25 that was generated via a system of criteria. The top 10 are pretty stable, the rest somewhat.

Duran
-25 points-
Experience: 24

-15 points-

Ring Generalship: 14
Longevity: 14
Dominance: 13

-10 points-
Durability: 9
P/LO: 9
Intangibles: 5

TOTAL: 88

Ali
-25 points-
Experience: 20

-15 points-

Ring Generalship: 14
Longevity: 11
Dominance: 14

-10 points-
Durability: 8
P/LO: 5
Intangibles: 9

TOTAL: 81

-------------------------
There's mine.

Now, let's see your criteria, because I am sure that a man of such adamant opinions will have a well-thought out presentation as to why Ali places higher than men with far more fights in superior divisions.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:24 PM   #180
TheGreatA
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,098
vCash: 1000
Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
I've said already. Ali has the better list of wins (in my opinion), Duran has the better single win, and a comparable list of wins, and I don't see a marked difference in talent based on film. I think if one is to have Duran in a top ten, Ali should be there also. I'm yet to hear a refutal.
And what if someone thinks Duran had a better list of wins, a better single win and was a more complete fighter? Would that make the person a "nuthugger" or a "fanboy"?

I'm not saying I necessarily think that, but I can see a person not being overly impressed by the likes of Foreman, Liston, Quarry, Ellis and others, skill-wise. The heavyweights aren't everybody's bread and butter.
TheGreatA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013