Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis in their primes?

[Azzer85]

Lewis would beat any version of Holyfield. Holyfield is so inconsistent, sometimes hes in his prime othertimes he isnt. He blows hot and cold.
Lewis was a more dominant champ...and so was pre prison Tyson for that matter.

[My2Sense]

They fought when they were both showing their age, and Lewis beat him clearly both times IMO. Granted, Holy was the older and probably more faded of the two at that time, but I think the decisiveness of Lewis' wins earn him the benefit of the doubt.

[crippet]

Originally Posted by My2Sense

They fought when they were both showing their age, and Lewis beat him clearly both times IMO. Granted, Holy was the older and probably more faded of the two at that time, but I think the decisiveness of Lewis' wins earn him the benefit of the doubt.

It would ordinarily earn any boxer the benefit of the doubt - but with Lewis there is a determined set of people who disregard his accomplishments and rank him below fighters who he clearly beat and had a better record common opponent-wise.
Some even regard Bowe higher than him even though Bowe did the blatantest piece of ducking seen in the last 50 years...and to compound it Bowe has never actually addressed that subject in an interview in nearly 20 years.
If Bowe had thought he had a chance against Lewis, we would have read countless interviews with him giving his opinion on why he did it and how he would have won.................but nah, its a subject never mentioned in his presence anymore

[lefthook31]

Theres a lot more to the whole Bowe Lewis thing than a lot of people think. Bowe was really not the scared type. There was a lot of politics around this time with King and HBO.

While Newman was a star of the highlight films for those matches, he was busy fighting larger battles in boxing's corridors of power. A year ago, with Mike Tyson off to jail and everyone jockeying to get a shot at heavyweight champion Holy-field, Newman says that WBC president José Sulaimán quietly urged him to retain Don King as his promoter. "Don is the best," Sulaimán, a longtime King ally, told him. "He's made the most money for fighters." Having come so far with Bowe, Newman said no. "Why should I work with King or anyone else?" he said. The WBC's answer came in February 1992, when its ratings committee, in a split vote, leapfrogged Razor Ruddock, a King fighter who had lost twice to Tyson, ahead of Bowe in its rankings. Newman says the move deprived Bowe of a guaranteed shot at the title. Newman called Sulaimán and said, "You are a dirty, no-good——! You forced Riddick out because I would not do business with Don King." Sulaimán denied this vehemently, but Newman promised revenge. He eventually got it at that garbage can in London, vowing that Bowe would never fight Lewis as long as Lewis wore the WBC belt.

[MagnaNasakki]

I love Evander. He is a personal friend of mine.

Lewis was an amateur rival I rooted against his entire career.

I pick Lewis to beat Evander. He killed him in the first fight, won clearly in the second fight when he fought more cautiously.

I don't see Evander as having the heavyweight tools to win this fight.

Evander is a great fighter, who achieved some amazing things, and he is a terrific friend. But he struggles head to head because of his size, reach, and lack of punch. He also needs to be set to punch or he looks uncoordinated. Lewis' jab keeps him off balance, just as it did in both actual fights, and Lewis' power keeps Evander from getting reckless and heating up. What punches Holyfield does manage to score in this game of cat and mouse, don't hurt enough to turn the tide.

Lewis is a top 10 ATG heavyweight, beneath Holyfield imo, but he's a top 4 H2H heavyweight. He had all the tools needed to win fights. All of them.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by D.T

How can you have Foreman vs Lewis 50/50.

Completely agree. Lewis would be the solid favourite.

[Kalasinn]

Originally Posted by My2Sense

They fought when they were both showing their age, and Lewis beat him clearly both times IMO. Granted, Holy was the older and probably more faded of the two at that time, but I think the decisiveness of Lewis' wins earn him the benefit of the doubt.

Your wording reeks of bias:

"Both showing their age?"
"Holyfield was the older and probably more faded of the two"

Lewis peaked very late, he was already 31 in the McCall rematch, do you really consider him past-prime against Holy? I think Lewis still looked Peak a year later against Grant & Botha. Truly poor preparation & overconfidence is what made Lewis so faded in his first meeting with Rahman, yet when properly prepared for the rematch, despite being aged 36, he again appeared Peak. In contrast, Holy was clearly past-prime from '94 onwards.

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

Your wording reeks of bias:

No, it reeks of memory and historical awareness.

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

Lewis peaked very late, he was already 31 in the McCall rematch, do you really consider him past-prime against Holy?

Yes, like others who saw his fight with Mavrovic.

Time Now Running Out On Holyfield and Lewis
By TIMOTHY W. SMITH
Published: September 28, 1998

Lennox Lewis survived to score a 12-round unanimous decision here Saturday night over Zeljko Mavrovic, the 27-year-old Croat with the granite head. And if there is a theme song for the heavyweight division these days, it is the Bee Gees' ''Stayin' Alive,'' because survival is the only thing that matters.

The week before Lewis climbed into the ring under a big tent in the parking lot of the Mohegan Sun Casino, Evander Holyfield, the International Boxing Federation and World Boxing Association champion, clung to his titles with a lackluster 12-round decision over Vaughn Bean.

Survival is not limited to the boxers who hold the major titles. Hasim Rahman, a talented young heavyweight, pulled out of a fight against David Tua on the undercard here. Two weeks before he was due to fight, Rahman signed a promotional agreement with Don King and did not want to risk losing to Tua and thereby surrendering a chance to be the No. 1 contender. Rahman is No. 3 now, and a victory would have enhanced his standing and net worth by $300,000.

Tua fought anyway, against Eric Curry, scoring a smashing technical knockout at 43 seconds of the first round. That was the heavyweight highlight of the night.

The obvious message from both the Lewis-Mavrovic and Holyfield-Bean fights was that the next bout for Holyfield, 35, and Lewis, 33, should be against each other in a title unification match.

''Unless they fight soon, one of these guys is going to lose,'' said Lou DiBella, senior vice president of programming at HBO Sports, which televised the Lewis-Mavrovic bout. ''Right now these guys are not into this level of fight. You didn't see the best Holyfield last week and the best Lewis. Neither one is going to survive many more of this kind of fight. It's time for Holyfield and Lewis to make the fight.''

When asked what it would take to get a bout between Lewis and Holyfield, Dino Duva of Main Events said, ''It's going to take Evander and his attorney to have the guts to get their promoter to make the fight.''

Holyfield would have no trouble with the Lewis who looked lackluster against Mavrovic (27-1).

''I thought it was a good fight,'' Lewis said. ''It was different. I was expecting him to do a lot of moving. I thought he would do a lot of dancing. He boxed a great fight and I definitely had to box for 12 rounds. It was a no-win situation for me.''

Lewis (34-1) appeared tired by the third round. By the 11th round, he would land a punch and then drape himself over Mavrovic like a huge cape. Emanuel Steward, Lewis's trainer, said he and his fighter kept disagreeing over strategy during the fight. Steward wanted Lewis to be more aggressive, but Lewis kept waiting to land a knockout punch.

''I wanted him to throw the right hand,'' Lewis said, ''because every time he throws the right hand he lifts his elbow and I wanted to hit him with the uppercut.''

The only problem was that Mavrovic threw few punches. According to CompuBox statistics, Mavrovic threw 298 punches (an average of 25 per round) and landed 132, while Lewis threw 507 punches and landed 216. Mavrovic, the European heavyweight champion for the past three years, proved his chin was durable. He had also been in survival mode. After he was made the World Boxing Council's No. 1 contender, Mavrovic trained but did not fight competitively. He had been out of the ring for 342 days before he fought Lewis.

''I gave my best, but Lennox was better this night,'' Mavrovic said.

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

I think Lewis still looked Peak a year later against Grant & Botha.

Then you overlooked the fact that Lewis looked even quicker and sharper in previous wins against Morrison and Golota.

[crippet]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Theres a lot more to the whole Bowe Lewis thing than a lot of people think. Bowe was really not the scared type. There was a lot of politics around this time with King and HBO.

While Newman was a star of the highlight films for those matches, he was busy fighting larger battles in boxing's corridors of power. A year ago, with Mike Tyson off to jail and everyone jockeying to get a shot at heavyweight champion Holy-field, Newman says that WBC president José Sulaimán quietly urged him to retain Don King as his promoter. "Don is the best," Sulaimán, a longtime King ally, told him. "He's made the most money for fighters." Having come so far with Bowe, Newman said no. "Why should I work with King or anyone else?" he said. The WBC's answer came in February 1992, when its ratings committee, in a split vote, leapfrogged Razor Ruddock, a King fighter who had lost twice to Tyson, ahead of Bowe in its rankings. Newman says the move deprived Bowe of a guaranteed shot at the title. Newman called Sulaimán and said, "You are a dirty, no-good——! You forced Riddick out because I would not do business with Don King." Sulaimán denied this vehemently, but Newman promised revenge. He eventually got it at that garbage can in London, vowing that Bowe would never fight Lewis as long as Lewis wore the WBC belt.

Bowe has had nearly 20 years to address the accusation of his cowardly ducking and what does he say??? Zip. Nothing Nada! It doesnt even get a mention in any interviews he does - You would think it would be the first thing he would want putting straight.
But his actions or lack of actions, speak as loudly as throwing a belt in the garbage rather than fight did.
Bowe attracts the type of followers, who would follow David Haye if he was American. Someone to bestow greatness on without actually doing anything of substance.
Bowe is the grandaddy of all the ducking fighters today - a precident for the fan boys who have decided they like a boxer and so imagine greatness on them of what they coulda woulda done, but actually coulda but didnt and ran from the chance to.

[Brighton bomber]

Many people seem to think Holyfield would do well because he was competitive in their second fight but quite happily ignore the fact in their first fight he was dominated by Lewis. You have to take both fight into account you cannot simply use the one fight which as an example of how the fighter you favour would do.

I gave Holyfield 3 rounds in their first fight and 5 in their second meeting. I think Holyfield did better second time around because Lewis tried to be more aggressive and box less allowing Holyfield to get inside more regularly which was something he struggled to do in their first fight.

Prime for prime I don't see Holyfield getting dominated like he was when he first fought Lewis but I don't see him winning either. Holyfield would do well and it would be competitive but I see Lewis out boxing Holyfield to earn a decision 8 rounds to 4.

[zadfrak]

Lewis.

The jabbers are the tough matches for Evander and he's better suited to other styles.
He just gets hit too much to win enough rounds against a Lennox Lewis. A tall safety first guy with a jab and good defense do not provide big enough holes for Evander to exploit.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Theres a lot more to the whole Bowe Lewis thing than a lot of people think. Bowe was really not the scared type. There was a lot of politics around this time with King and HBO.

While Newman was a star of the highlight films for those matches, he was busy fighting larger battles in boxing's corridors of power. A year ago, with Mike Tyson off to jail and everyone jockeying to get a shot at heavyweight champion Holy-field, Newman says that WBC president José Sulaimán quietly urged him to retain Don King as his promoter. "Don is the best," Sulaimán, a longtime King ally, told him. "He's made the most money for fighters." Having come so far with Bowe, Newman said no. "Why should I work with King or anyone else?" he said. The WBC's answer came in February 1992, when its ratings committee, in a split vote, leapfrogged Razor Ruddock, a King fighter who had lost twice to Tyson, ahead of Bowe in its rankings. Newman says the move deprived Bowe of a guaranteed shot at the title. Newman called Sulaimán and said, "You are a dirty, no-good——! You forced Riddick out because I would not do business with Don King." Sulaimán denied this vehemently, but Newman promised revenge. He eventually got it at that garbage can in London, vowing that Bowe would never fight Lewis as long as Lewis wore the WBC belt.

"While he was incarcerated, the WBC ordered a title eliminator between No. 1 ranked Razor Ruddock and No. 2 ranked Riddick Bowe, which was accepted by both in writing. After making such commitment, Bowe decided to pull out of the agreement and instead fight Pierre Coetzer of South Africa.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Riddick Bowe, just elevated to the No. 2 heavyweight contender's ranking by the World Boxing Council, is not signed to fight Donovan "Razor" Ruddock."There is absolutely no fight," Rock Newman, Bowe's manager, said yesterday. "It is a 100 percent figment of Murad Muhammad's warped imagination."Murad Muhammad, Ruddock's promoter, said Wednesday that an agreement had been reached on the fight, but not the site.

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Sulaiman said that both Holyfield and Bowe had agreed in writing to defend the crown against the Lewis-Ruddock winner, but that Bowe was having second thoughts. Americans Holyfield and Bowe fight for the world title at the Mirage in Las Vegas, Nev., on Nov. 13.

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[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

Your wording reeks of bias:

"Both showing their age?"
"Holyfield was the older and probably more faded of the two"

Lewis peaked very late, he was already 31 in the McCall rematch, do you really consider him past-prime against Holy? I think Lewis still looked Peak a year later against Grant & Botha. Truly poor preparation & overconfidence is what made Lewis so faded in his first meeting with Rahman, yet when properly prepared for the rematch, despite being aged 36, he again appeared Peak. In contrast, Holy was clearly past-prime from '94 onwards.

I agree. Lewis reached his absolute peak by the Tua fight both mentally and physically. I always related that win to his loss to Rahman. I think in his mind, he had beaten all the best the division could offer at the time. He completely dominated Tua after coming off two explosive performances against Grant and Botha. Holyfield on the other hand looked so incosistent since 94. Holyfield was clearly the more declined fighter. Mavrovic could have made anyone look bad with his survival first style and Lewis would have always struggled with any type of fighter that didnt stand in front of him.

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

"While he was incarcerated, the WBC ordered a title eliminator between No. 1 ranked Razor Ruddock and No. 2 ranked Riddick Bowe, which was accepted by both in writing. After making such commitment, Bowe decided to pull out of the agreement and instead fight Pierre Coetzer of South Africa.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Riddick Bowe, just elevated to the No. 2 heavyweight contender's ranking by the World Boxing Council, is not signed to fight Donovan "Razor" Ruddock."There is absolutely no fight," Rock Newman, Bowe's manager, said yesterday. "It is a 100 percent figment of Murad Muhammad's warped imagination."Murad Muhammad, Ruddock's promoter, said Wednesday that an agreement had been reached on the fight, but not the site.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Sulaiman said that both Holyfield and Bowe had agreed in writing to defend the crown against the Lewis-Ruddock winner, but that Bowe was having second thoughts. Americans Holyfield and Bowe fight for the world title at the Mirage in Las Vegas, Nev., on Nov. 13.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Whatever you post, yes it appears that Bowe ducked Lewis, but do you really think Riddick Bowe was scared of Lewis? My point was that there was more to it than Bowe himself saying I dont want to fight Lewis because Im scared of him. Rock Newman was a kook, he didnt want to be dictated to by anyone.

[crippet]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Whatever you post, yes it appears that Bowe ducked Lewis, but do you really think Riddick Bowe was scared of Lewis? My point was that there was more to it than Bowe himself saying I dont want to fight Lewis because Im scared of him. Rock Newman was a kook, he didnt want to be dictated to by anyone.

Scared can cover a few different meanings.
Bowe may not have been physically scared of being in a ring with Lewis, but he may have been scared of losing his 0. Confidence is a prime motivator in a fight and it appears clear that Bowe nor his manager had the confidence of victory against Lewis.
I presume most professional are scared of losing.