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Old 10-18-2010, 04:30 PM   #361
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
This is what McLarnin said about it:
“Benny Leonard was in great shape” said Mclarnin later. “He hit me in the first round and I saw stars, but he had lost all his speed. I knocked him out.”

Clearly Leonard was way past his best, but he still hadn't been defeated for a long time. For a former flyweight it still seems an impressive win for me.

Nah, Leonard was done man. His re-run was carefully managed...he was basically brought back for the gate against McLarnin, "The Jew Killer". Even the McLarnin biographers are clear that Leonard was basically done.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:30 PM   #362
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
This is what McLarnin said about it:
“Benny Leonard was in great shape” said Mclarnin later. “He hit me in the first round and I saw stars, but he had lost all his speed. I knocked him out.”

Clearly Leonard was way past his best, but he still hadn't been defeated for a long time. For a former flyweight it still seems an impressive win for me.
McLarnin was never lighter than 135-140 pounds past 20 years of age.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:31 PM   #363
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What does that have to do with anything?
you hate that


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Agreed. That fight was really his last hurrah.
I used to know how many stitches Canzo ended up with in his face, but i've forgotten...it was a lot. Useless post really...
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #364
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McLarnin was never lighter than 135-140 pounds past 20 years of age.

Like Pac, he benifits from that teenage status. I give credit for achievments at the weight, but I wouldn't really see any achievments at a higher weight in the light of that teenage weight.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #365
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I rank McLarnin the lowest out of the trinity.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:34 PM   #366
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The occasional loss to B class opposition, loss to Mandell (although this can be excused IMO), loss to Petrolle, losing the series to Pep and losing the most important fight against Canzoneri.

I think Ross and Canzoneri demonstrated they were superior to him.
Yeah, perhaps. I was under the impression he was champ at lower weights, but he wasn't. He did defeat flyweight champion Pancho Villa in a non-title fight, though.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:35 PM   #367
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McLarnin was never lighter than 135-140 pounds past 20 years of age.
True. The question then is how good his wins at lighter weights are. The one against Villa?
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:37 PM   #368
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True. The question then is how good his wins at lighter weights are. The one against Villa?

It's actually another example of some of the...I nearly said "fakery", but that's not quite right, but quesiton marks, maybe, around McLarnin's status. Poor Villa was very ill with an abcess on his tooth the night of that fight. Can you imagine? He died of blood poisoning born of the tooth only days later. Terrible loss.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:38 PM   #369
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Yeah, perhaps. I was under the impression he was champ at lower weights, but he wasn't. He did defeat flyweight champion Pancho Villa in a non-title fight, though.
He was also considerably larger and facing a sickened Villa just two days prior to his early demise.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:42 PM   #370
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It's actually another example of some of the...I nearly said "fakery", but that's not quite right, but quesiton marks, maybe, around McLarnin's status. Poor Villa was very ill with an abcess on his tooth the night of that fight. Can you imagine? He died of blood poisoning born of the tooth only days later. Terrible loss.
Fair enough. So McLarnin's legacy is based on his LW at WW fights then? Where he mixed wins and losses against the best he met.

That's not really top 10 material. A final revision seems to be in order.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:45 PM   #371
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Who wouldn't mix losses in series with the level of opponents he fought? His resume is as stacked as you'll find anywhere, especially given the relatively small amount of fights he had in comparison to many of those men.

Not top 10 material, in my opinion, but could easily be within the top 20.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:46 PM   #372
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

If we're doing revisions, try this one on for size:

1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Sam Langford
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Roberto Duran
8. Packey McFarland
9. Joe Gans
10. Benny Leonard
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:47 PM   #373
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

I think 18-24 is about right for him.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:48 PM   #374
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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I
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Sam Langford


How you figuring this when Langford has better wins at basically every single division they both fought at?
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:51 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by El Bujia View Post
If we're doing revisions, try this one on for size:

1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Sam Langford
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Roberto Duran
8. Packey McFarland
9. Joe Gans
10. Benny Leonard
Tell me some about McFarland.
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