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View Poll Results: Even a 40yr old Vitali would destroy Haye!
Yes, or course 30 41.67%
No, no way 42 58.33%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-18-2010, 02:08 PM   #46
WestHamForever
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

I've no time for either Klitschko, but I think Vitali is a favorite here. Not based on what I saw against Briggs though. Briggs was never really that good even way back when.
Problems I see for Haye are these:

1. Size Difference - Vitali is 4 1/2 inches taller, 30 lbs heavier and has a 2" reach advantage. Now I know Haye faced a much bigger size differential against Vaulev, so the temptation is to say "if Haye can handle Vaulev, why not Klitschko?". Problem is Klitschko is in a different stratosphere from Vaulev in the ability stakes and he will use that size difference much more effectively. If he can bully Haye, lean on him and wear him down, then Haye is going to get real tired, real quick.
2. Klitchko's Punch Resistance - David Haye does have pop, no doubt about it, but can he hurt Vitali? One thing Vitali does have is punch resistance. That uppercut he ate against Lennox would have floored many great fighters. I seriously dont think Haye can stop Vitali, so he has to go the long route to win this one.
3. Haye's Punch Resistance - I dont think Haye has a particularly china chin, but I think its vulnerable. I dont think David would have taken the overhand rights that Briggs took on Saturday night. Granted Briggs was only slightly harder to hit than the heavy bag, but boy did he demonstrate some punch resistance. Never been a Briggs fan, but after that I had to tip my hat to the man for his heart.

So three big problems, how does Haye overcome these? He has to employ the raiding tactics he did against Vaulev. Score in bunches whilst moving in and out of range. He needs to make Vitali's strength, size and punching power non-issues whilst at the same time utilising his advantages in hand and foot speed. Like I said he aint going to win this inside schedule so he needs to steal the rounds whilst all the time being mindful that Vitali can knock him out given the opportunity.

Its a tough assingment for sure and to win Haye has to execute his gameplan perfectly. If I were a betting man I'd make Vitali a firm favorite, but I'm rooting for Haye all the way here. I just wish he'd show some bottle and get in the ring with one of these two brothers.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:16 PM   #47
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

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Originally Posted by White Tiger View Post
Shannon Briggs (former World Linear Champion)

Juan Carlos Gomez (former World Crusierweight Champion)

Samuel Peter

Corrie Saunders (former World Heavyweight Champion)

Herbie Hide (former World Heavyweight Champion)
Gomez was world-class in the division below. Sanders was a part-timer when he faced Vitali and was nothing special himself other than the win over Wlad. Hide had already failed in his foray at HW and the manner in which he lost says it all.

Finally, Peter's his best win. But he was so astoundingly average in the first place to make the term "world class" ridiculous.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:21 PM   #48
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

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Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
Gomez was world-class in the division below. Sanders was a part-timer when he faced Vitali and was nothing special himself other than the win over Wlad. Hide had already failed in his foray at HW and the manner in which he lost says it all.

Finally, Peter's his best win. But he was so astoundingly average in the first place to make the term "world class" ridiculous.

How do you rate Haye's opposition?
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

I was clearly taking the piss.

But I stand by my general point that whilst he might have had a lead, he wasn't actually winning the fight - Klitschko might have won three or four rounds (think I gave him three anyway) and had Lewis in trouble in the 2nd..... but he had to do an awful lot to win those rounds.

Lewis was definitely putting the heat on him, took the 5th and 6th and had Vitali in serious trouble with a huge uppercut.

I know people love the underdog and yes, he did show plenty of stones to not only take the fight but put up a very good showing..... but let's not re-write history and turn him into something he isn't.

He's the 2nd best in a very bad bunch for the HW division - put him in the 1990's and he'd be in the lower half of a top 10, alongside McCall, Mavrovic, Bruno and the like. He's not on the level of a Tyson, a Holyfield, a Bowe or a Lewis.

The fact that (like Bruno) he lost to Lewis having put on the best display of his career in a loss proves that.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

Why this thread after he shuts out a 260lb man with asthma? Really nothing to write home about, the only question is why couldn't he stop said 39 year with asthma when he was a sitting duck for at least 7 rounds...?
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:57 PM   #51
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

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Originally Posted by loughlan View Post
How do you rate Haye's opposition?
At heavyweight, it's pretty mediocre. I thought the Valuev and Ruiz wins were pretty good, considering Haye was a cruiser and he controlled both fights. The stoppage of Ruiz was excellent - very focused, disciplined showing even considering Haye's timing was off due to the lack of sparring.

But it's helpful to bear in mind neither Haye nor Vitali has set the world alight at heavy. The two best guys Vitali's faced, he's lost to. Haye's got some time yet, and I do think he'll beat Vitali.

Wlad's another story. I think Wlad's resume at heavy is better than his brothers. His recent opponents have been utter gash, but I won't blame him for that. The Chagaev win was excellent, for example.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:59 PM   #52
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

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Originally Posted by TFFP View Post
Why this thread after he shuts out a 260lb man with asthma? Really nothing to write home about, the only question is why couldn't he stop said 39 year with asthma when he was a sitting duck for at least 7 rounds...?
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Originally Posted by JonOli View Post
I'd had a few too many yes. It's not the greatest of threads I admit.



I do think Vitali beats Haye easily though.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

How can Haye's heavyweight opposition be mediocre anyway? Valuev was probably the most accomplished fighter outside the brothers that isn't shot (Holyfield) or a joke (Toney). Note: most accomplished, not neccessarily best.

Same with Ruiz, if you actually look down his record.

I think in this division it should be acknowledged they aren't mediocre, they're probably somewhere between good and very good wins.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

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Originally Posted by happydrinks View Post
World class fighters Vitali has beaten:
Hayes' resume doesn't exactly read like an encyclopedia either.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:53 PM   #55
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

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Originally Posted by TFFP View Post
How can Haye's heavyweight opposition be mediocre anyway? Valuev was probably the most accomplished fighter outside the brothers that isn't shot (Holyfield) or a joke (Toney). Note: most accomplished, not neccessarily best.

Same with Ruiz, if you actually look down his record.

I think in this division it should be acknowledged they aren't mediocre, they're probably somewhere between good and very good wins.
I guess I'm trying to hold Haye to the same standard I do Vitali. I think Haye's last two wins were pretty good considering they're his fourth at the weight. How many people looked that good kicking Ruiz's ass? Three. Toney (who cheated), Tua (who caught John cold) and Roy Jones.

Valuev... well, Haye beat him more emphatically than Chagaev and topped it with a near-knockdown in the 12th, but it was careful and measured rather than dominant. He out-manoeuvred the big guy rather than beat him up.

People will mock Nikolai, but the fact that only two guys have ever beaten him, and they were stylistically quite different, speaks well for Haye.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:57 PM   #56
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

Anyone listen to On the Ropes? They were gushing over Vitalis performance.
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Old 10-18-2010, 07:02 PM   #57
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Default Re: Even a 40 yr Vitali would destroy Haye, it's time for the Brit forum to admit it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFFP View Post
How can Haye's heavyweight opposition be mediocre anyway?


Same with Ruiz, if you actually look down his record.
I think the 37 yr old Ruiz, in his last ever fight, was all but done and by then. Ruiz had also given up the unattractive grappling style, in an effort to not be remembered for it, that made him successful.

Barret, who next to no one knew before he fought Haye, was done as well. It was also not the most convincing of performances from Haye who arguably suffered a knockdown.

Sure credit to him for the Valuev win, but it wasn't the most convincing win ever.
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