K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Serenata

Valuev had the option but didn´t take it

And what about Valuev's brother/sister/grandmother?

Did they pass up on their opportunity too?

[p.Townend]

Ive heard many times they are hard to work with but unless we get to see the money offered we cant really say how fair or unfair the contracts are.Heavyweights have always been overpaid and I think some of them need to realise that due to the current weak division the money is not what it once was.People just are not willing to fork out a fortune to watch the current crop of heavy`s

[modestbiggles]

the bit i don't understand about the rematch clause is why they get the other brother involved. sure, if you are defending your belt then sure put a rematch clause in. but not for another boxer.

the fact that they are brothers is irrelevant. what would you all have said if Amir Khan had said to Maidana; "If you beat me, then you have to fight Bradley then Amir again." Its exactly the same. its stupid.

of course, if you become the champ then you will want to fight for the other belts, but at your own pace. you might want to fight a mandatory first, or a voluntary defence. slave contracts really sums it up.

rematch causes againt the brother are unreasonable.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by rushman

Well, if you want to be strictly fair...

how about a comparison of complaints about Klit contracts with the contracts of other promoters?

how about a comparison of terms in general?

Do you really think you would end up convincing anyone that the Klits are worse than Don King, or even Golden Boy? Actually, the question would become: which of the big promoters are the Klits demonstrably worse than?

We're only talking about one division here and since the Klitschko's are current it's relevant to today. I've never known one promotion in one division to have so many complaints against them.

If you want to argue that their have been worse in the past and King was/is as bad feel free to present a case, I'm not doing it for you.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Serenata

He seems to be from the british isles. Anything to discredit the Klitschkos

Sorry no. All I've read for the past couple of years is, Povetkins a coward, Valuev is a coward, Haye is a coward, so I did a little research and have presented others in the same boat.

Perhaps if you search my history you'll see I'm a fan of them as fighters, especially Vitali, but something stinks with the contracts in my opinion.

Oh, and both brothers beat Haye.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by modestbiggles

the bit i don't understand about the rematch clause is why they get the other brother involved. sure, if you are defending your belt then sure put a rematch clause in. but not for another boxer.

the fact that they are brothers is irrelevant. what would you all have said if Amir Khan had said to Maidana; "If you beat me, then you have to fight Bradley then Amir again." Its exactly the same. its stupid.

of course, if you become the champ then you will want to fight for the other belts, but at your own pace. you might want to fight a mandatory first, or a voluntary defence. slave contracts really sums it up.

Exactly. I have no problem with one rematch clause, the champ should get the first shot to regain his title, but getting the other brother involved is both unfair and bullshit.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by p.Townend

Ive heard many times they are hard to work with but unless we get to see the money offered we cant really say how fair or unfair the contracts are.Heavyweights have always been overpaid and I think some of them need to realise that due to the current weak division the money is not what it once was.People just are not willing to fork out a fortune to watch the current crop of heavy`s

Unfortunatly without Showtime/HBO cash the money's never going to be as big as it once was and of course this will have a knock on effect into negotiations.

[Uncle Rico]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

Posted this elsewhere, guess now's a good time to expand on it a little.
Below is a list of boxers who have had trouble negotiating with the Klitschkos:

Tua - "Lowball offer"
[URL]***********.***********.com/?m=show&id=31461[/URL]

Toney - "Chump Change"
[URL]***********.fighthype.com/pages/content7069.html[/URL]

Dimitrenko - "Mutual benificial terms, not those being offered by K2"
[URL]***********.***********.com/?m=show&id=31865[/URL]

Adamek - "The Klitschko brothers offer their opponents little money. If they want to fight me and offer the right amount of money, I will fight them."
[URL="********blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/Boxing_19/Adamek_returns_to_The_Rock.shtml"]********blackathlete.net/artman2/publ...The_Rock.shtml[/URL]

Lennox Lewis -
[URL="***********.eastsideboxing.com/forum/../boxing...-Interview.php"]***********.eastsideboxing.com/boxing...-Interview.php[/URL]
Lewis: At one time, we tried to make this fight and his promoter was lying to the Klitschko brothers and overpriced himself trying to get extra money. I feel good and confident about the fight and I am ready to go.

Maybe they learned from an old promoter eh?

Mormeck - asking for "too much money" -
[URL="***********.eastsideboxing.com/forum/../news.php?p=25176&more=1"]***********.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=25176&more=1[/URL]

Haye - "contract an utter joke"
[URL="***********.eastsideboxing.com/forum/../news.php?p=19316&more=1"]***********.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=19316&more=1[/URL]

Povetkin - "Slave Contract"
[URL]***********.***********.com/?m=show&id=29484[/URL]

Valuev - "Conditions which were offered by Vitali which didn't satisfy my promoters or me"
[URL]***********.fightnews.com/Boxing/qa-nikolay-valuev-54147[/URL]

Chisora - signing a 3 fight deal he was "told to keep silent about"
[URL="***********.eastsideboxing.com/forum/../news.php?p=25536&more=1"]***********.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=25536&more=1[/URL]

Byrd - "This is crazy"
[URL]***********.fighthype.com/community/index.php?showtopic=25890&pid=489035&st=0&#entry489035[/URL]

Replace the * with the scene to view link.

So are they cowards? Should they be grateful? Are they fools for passing up a great opportunity?
Or are they looking at the K2 contracts and thinking "Is this a joke?".

Discuss.

*Edited to add Chris Byrd.

Haye's a f*cking *****.

Just messing. I'll give those links a read when I get the chance.

[bruce_keyes]

This is a privilege that you have when you own a promotion company, and world champion.. You call the shots and how much your opponent gets paid

[rushman]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

We're only talking about one division here and since the Klitschko's are current it's relevant to today. I've never known one promotion in one division to have so many complaints against them.

If you want to argue that their have been worse in the past and King was/is as bad feel free to present a case, I'm not doing it for you.

So you aren't going to put things into context?

That's cool. That implies that context would ruin your point.

I think anyone who is willing to look at it rationally would say that the Klits are far from the worst promoters out there.

Now, what about the elephant in the room? All you have to do is beat them to become the champ who dictates the terms. Two fights, or three fights and unifying. Should be easy, right?

Reading quotes like you present just looks like sour grapes. Guys who couldn't establish themselves at the top and are bitter about it.

Then we have people bitching and moaning about what could possibly happen if someone beats one of the Klits. How about focussing on that first? How about beating one, rather than bitching about what happens when you do?

Like I said, people are moaning like Chisora has been forced to fight three times. He hasn't. What do you think the odds are of him beating Wlad not once, but twice? Maybe 1 in 1000?

When you put the actual probability of the clause being enacted into the conversation - or as some people refuse to do - put things into context? Then it is laughable.
The fact that people try to blow it out of proportion in order to attack the Klits (Tall Poppy Syndrome, see link provided) is just kinda sad.

Before replying, please add what you realistically think the odds of Chisora beating Wlad twice are. And how this probability affects the implications of the clause.

[rushman]

Originally Posted by bruce_keyes

This is a privilege that you have when you own a promotion company, and world champion.. You call the shots and how much your opponent gets paid

Nah, easier to get unearned title shots then bitch about getting ten times what you deserve.

Much harder to become the actual top dog.

[rayhogan]

Boxingfan1 is really retarded to say the least. Lesson here moron. Most of those fighters haven't really proving they are very good in the heavyweight division lol. Lewis is the only one that is proving he's a legend. If all this stuff about slave excuse contracts then fighters like Barrett, Sanders, Peter, Williams, Johnson, Hide, Donald, Chambers, Rahman and way way way way more fighters that both Klits face wouldn't even face them but i guess they didn't think it was a slave contracts. Sure Bryd did but what has he done before he fought Vitali? If i read right didn't Lewis said that Klits former promoter lied to them? How come Brewster didn't fought Vitali after he ko Wlad? hmmmm weird.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by rushman

So you aren't going to put things into context?

That's cool. That implies that context would ruin your point.

I think anyone who is willing to look at it rationally would say that the Klits are far from the worst promoters out there.

Now, what about the elephant in the room? All you have to do is beat them to become the champ who dictates the terms. Two fights, or three fights and unifying. Should be easy, right?

Reading quotes like you present just looks like sour grapes. Guys who couldn't establish themselves at the top and are bitter about it.

Then we have people bitching and moaning about what could possibly happen if someone beats one of the Klits. How about focussing on that first? How about beating one, rather than bitching about what happens when you do?

Like I said, people are moaning like Chisora has been forced to fight three times. He hasn't. What do you think the odds are of him beating Wlad not once, but twice? Maybe 1 in 1000?

When you put the actual probability of the clause being enacted into the conversation - or as some people refuse to do - put things into context? Then it is laughable.
The fact that people try to blow it out of proportion in order to attack the Klits (Tall Poppy Syndrome, see link provided) is just kinda sad.

Before replying, please add what you realistically think the odds of Chisora beating Wlad twice are. And how this probability affects the implications of the clause.

Context ruins nothing, King got fights made against the top guys, if Tyson was around today he'd tell them to cram their offer if he was mandatory and I don't recall King having this amount of trouble.

I've put enough effort into creating the thread thanks so if you want to prove Don King in a 10 year period (same as the Klitschkos) was as bad go ahead, I don't think he was anywhere near as bad.

Sour grapes? Yeah, me and 11 fighters plus trainers, promoters and managers who've been in the game for years are all spouting "sour grapes".

Chisora's odds are irrelevant. He should only have to face Wlad in a rematch and if he wins that have a fight of his choosing, an easy payday, on his terms, and it should be Vitali who works his way into a mandatory shot if he wants to unify. As it stands Chisora is dictated to for 3 fights even if he's the Heavyweight Champion. That means less £ than he should be entitled to, forced to continue fighting in Germany and a fight attached to a fighter disconected from Wlad, that's ****ing crazy.

Imagine Lewis was around today and Haye's dictating to Wlad and saying ok you get my title, I get a rematch, I lose the rematch you fight Lewis, oh and it's all in the UK and even come the 3rd fight you won't get the ££ you're entitled to.

It's bullshit man come on!!

[Jack]

Originally Posted by rayhogan

Boxingfan1 is really retarded to say the least. Lesson here moron. Most of those fighters haven't really proving they are very good in the heavyweight division lol. Lewis is the only one that is proving he's a legend. If all this stuff about slave excuse contracts then fighters like Barrett, Sanders, Peter, Williams, Johnson, Hide, Donald, Chambers, Rahman and way way way way more fighters that both Klits face wouldn't even face them but i guess they didn't think it was a slave contracts. Sure Bryd did but what has he done before he fought Vitali? If i read right didn't Lewis said that Klits former promoter lied to them? How come Brewster didn't fought Vitali after he ko Wlad? hmmmm weird.

Of course they would face them. The Klitschko's hold all but one world title so if a guy wants to be world champion, he probably has to fight either brother, meaning they can offer whatever they want. The opposition is backed into a corner. Either they boycott the titles or they accept unfair money.

Anyway, this is a great post and highlights a genuine issue. The titles are being held ransom.

BoxingFan, Briggs was always very critical of the contracts offered whilst champion too.