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Old 10-24-2010, 12:34 PM   #16
Goodhill
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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Originally Posted by mister View Post
i give you credit for making this list,but i have to be honest,i have not heard of any of these fighters
Derek Chisora is fighting in a world-title bout - now youve heard

Kubrat Pulev is amateur olympic champ

If you follow boxing and you havent heard of these guys?
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

You are wrong. Kubrat Pulev isn't an olympic champion, but he is an European Champion, from Liverpool in 2008. I agree that Hellenius and Pulev are the best prospects at the heavyweight in Europe right now.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

can someone please fill me in,who and where are these boxers from,i have not heard of any of them,are they club fighters,journeymen,not one rings a bell,is this some sort of joke,how can a fighter unknown to man be rated
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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can someone please fill me in,who and where are these boxers from,i have not heard of any of them,are they club fighters,journeymen,not one rings a bell,is this some sort of joke,how can a fighter unknown to man be rated
They are mostly Eurpean PROSPECTS, which i maybe why you have never heard of them. We did not bother with Povetkin, Valeuv, Adamek, the Kilts, etc. since they have reached their peak or are known quantities.

The first tier are European heavy prospects who are high rated or known from their amatuer days.

The second are similar americans and Brits (for comparative purposes)

The third tier are Euro prospects who are known by some of the fans on these boards despite being unhearladed.

The forth are names of undefeated European heavies that I got off of boxrec in the deeper end.

If you don't know most of them, don't worry about it. But you realy should familiarize yourself with Helenius, Pulev, Boytsov and Glazkov, as there is tremendous amount of excitment about them . Pulev and Helenius are moving at a fantastic pace.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

Just the guys I know enough about to rate. The number corresponds to about the percent chance I think they have of winning a title (e.g., a 7 means I think there's a 70% chance he'll win a title), assuming the Klitschkos only have a couple years left:

Robert Helenius - 7 (but has the best chance of being "great")
Kubrat Pulev - 8
Dennis Boytsov - 7
Vyacheslav Glazkov - 7

Deontay Wilder - 4 (but has a higher upside, if everything comes together, than most of the guys on the first list, but also a very great chance of completely flaming out before even becoming a contender)
Tor Hamer - 3
Tyson Fury - 7 (I'm encouraged by his age and how much he's improved from fight to fight)
Dereck Chisora - 4
Tom Dallas -1
David Price - 3

Alexander Dimitrenko - 3
Francesco Pianeta - 3
Timur Ibragimov - 2
Albert Sosnowski - 1
Alexander Ustinov - 2
Oleh Platov -3
Edmund Gerber - 2
Vladimir Virchis - 2 (too far past it)
Yakup Saglam - 1

I know nothing about any of those undefeated fighters.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:16 AM   #21
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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Here's the thing. None of young guns have beaten a top 10 heavy, so it is difficult to tell who is the best among Pulev, Helenius, or Glazkov.

I do think Pulev has much better speed, and better athleticism and skills in comparison to Helenius. Pulev at 6'4" 1/2 is a big man too. Helenius is a little stiff, but my guess hits harder and take the better punch in comparison to Pulev. Glalzkov is only 6'3", but I think he takes the best punch of the three, hits a little harder than Pulev, and is quicker than Helenius. As an Amateur, Glazkov was the highest rated of the three. Who is the best man? Hard to say for now!

I don't think Pulev, Helenius, or Glazkov are going to be aces capable of trumping the deck, but each of them has the potential to become a king once the Klitschko's are gone.
Just curious what you base that on? I can't remember seeing Pulev bothered or hurt?
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:25 AM   #22
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Just the guys I know enough about to rate. The number corresponds to about the percent chance I think they have of winning a title (e.g., a 7 means I think there's a 70% chance he'll win a title), assuming the Klitschkos only have a couple years left:

Robert Helenius - 7 (but has the best chance of being "great")
Kubrat Pulev - 8
Dennis Boytsov - 7
Vyacheslav Glazkov - 7

Deontay Wilder - 4 (but has a higher upside, if everything comes together, than most of the guys on the first list, but also a very great chance of completely flaming out before even becoming a contender)
Tor Hamer - 3
Tyson Fury - 7 (I'm encouraged by his age and how much he's improved from fight to fight)
Dereck Chisora - 4
Tom Dallas -1
David Price - 3

Alexander Dimitrenko - 3
Francesco Pianeta - 3
Timur Ibragimov - 2
Albert Sosnowski - 1
Alexander Ustinov - 2
Oleh Platov -3
Edmund Gerber - 2
Vladimir Virchis - 2 (too far past it)
Yakup Saglam - 1

I know nothing about any of those undefeated fighters.
Thanks for another detailed response. Interesting that you and Mendoza agree almost completely on the top four. I guess great minds think alike.

I too like Fury more than most- especially now that he is suppossedly working with Emmanuel Stewart.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:35 AM   #23
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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Thanks for another detailed response. Interesting that you and Mendoza agree almost completely on the top four. I guess great minds think alike.
Both people usually seem to make good posts well worth reading IMO.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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Just curious what you base that on? I can't remember seeing Pulev bothered or hurt?


What do I base this on? Experience on watching boxing for 30+ years. As we know in the heavyweight division the ability to take a punch is paramount. I watch how guys react when they are hit, and if they change tactics once they are hit.

Did you see Pulev vs. Timurziev? Pulev was almost out. Im not saying Pulev has a glass jaw. Far from it! Its just he doesnt react as well as Glazkov does when he gets hit. When Pulev gets hit, I think it bothers him a tad, and forces him to changes tactics. Pulev is not the type to trade bombs with an equally skilled opponent. Glazkov can and will.

I have seen Glazkov take hard shots from Camarelle without flinching or changing tactics. That is the sign of a man with a top level chin and confidence in his ability to take it. In my opinion Cammarelle is a better knock out puncher than Timurziev was. I hope that explains my thinking.

It should be noted that Glazkov was competitive with Cammarelle, even though Cammarelle had a huge edge on experience. Cammarelle was far and away the best amateur super heavy since Povetkin retired. Its a pity Cammarelle wont turn pro. He had the good to be something special, but I get the hunch he lacks some toughness. Glazkov has added muscle the right way since he has turned professional. In my opinion he will prove to be a serious contender in the division.
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

My 2 cents:

Robert Helenius 6
Kubrat Pulev 5
Dennis Boytsov 9
Vyacheslav Glazkov 5
Magomed Abdusalamov 8


Deontay Wilder 5
Seth Mitchel 6
Joe Hanks 5
Tor Hammer 5
Tyson Fury 5
Derrick Chisora 6
Tom Dallas 3
David Price 3


Alexander Dimitrenko 4
Francesco Pianeta 5
Timur Ibragimov 3
Albert Sosnowski 1
Alexander Ustinov 4
Oleh Platov 2
Neven Pajkic 4
Edmund Gerber 2
Ondrej Pala 3
Andrzej Wawrzyk 3
Mariusz Wach 3
Yakup Saglam 1
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

Wilder and Hamer aren't European.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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Wilder and Hamer aren't European.
They are there for contrast purposes.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

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My 2 cents:

Robert Helenius 6
Kubrat Pulev 5
Dennis Boytsov 9
Vyacheslav Glazkov 5
Magomed Abdusalamov 8


Deontay Wilder 5
Seth Mitchel 6
Joe Hanks 5
Tor Hammer 5
Tyson Fury 5
Derrick Chisora 6
Tom Dallas 3
David Price 3


Alexander Dimitrenko 4
Francesco Pianeta 5
Timur Ibragimov 3
Albert Sosnowski 1
Alexander Ustinov 4
Oleh Platov 2
Neven Pajkic 4
Edmund Gerber 2
Ondrej Pala 3
Andrzej Wawrzyk 3
Mariusz Wach 3
Yakup Saglam 1
thanks for the input. Its cool that you rate Boytsov and Abdusalamov much more highly than Mendoza and Brickhaus, and Pulev, Helenius and Glazkov much lower.

Also thanks for the addition of Joe Hanks and Seth Mitchell, though I think Mithcell is too old to go very far.
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

Pulev - Think he's overrated to be honest. I appreciate him fighting good competition early but his footwork is a joke. He really doesn't move at all well. I don't think he has a great work-rate, and his power while good is going to get less and less against better competition and I think his lack of work-rate and footwork will make him easily outboxed. Imagine him against somebody like Eddie Chambers, not a good look. 6/10.

Glazkov - I rate this guy as a prospect. Because he's athletic and coordinated, he really moves quite nicely, puts combinations together well, not great power but makes up with it with work-rate and decent speed. Yep, think he's decent and has a chance long-term. 7.5/10.

Boytsov - I consider him further progressed. I don't think he's got a great chance against any of the current champions but he's one of the best prospects to pick up a title down the road if he can steer clear of injuries. He was more of a pressure fighter coming up but now he's more of a boxer puncher. I notice he's very very accurate with his punching, well drilled and is probably the most heavy handed on this list. Size is a bit of a concern but oh well. 8/10.

David Price - Fought truely awful comp of the Latvian cabdriver variety so its hard to judge him. I don't think he uses his size too well and mixes it up in close too much which with his chin from the amateur days is not a good sign. Needs to watch the Klitschko's and learn how to use his size better and to commit to his jab a lot more. 4/10.

Abusamalaov - What's with his conditioning? He's in poor shape and it reflects on his speed. I also think he looks very crude at times compared to the above prospects. Seems very heavy handed but to me he's not in championship fighting condition and I find it tough to rate him accordingly. 5/10 possibly rising to 6/10 if he improves his conditioning somewhat.

Helenius - Never rated him as much as I've wanted to buy into the 'Nordic Nightmare'. Very upright, looks like an oak tree and I wouldn't say he's very athletic or co-ordinated like some big men but he is decently schooled and has a dig. But then again he keeps getting the job done so maybe I should reevaluate. I'm going to rate him somewhere between Pulev who I think he could outbox and Glazkov who I think may be too mobile for him. 6.5/10.

Pianeta - Basically the Arthur Abraham of the heavyweights. Huge guy but doesn't really impose himself on a fight, he more or less waits for his opportunities. Too easily outworked against decent operators, won't make it further than his current level. 4/10.

Fury - Impressive handspeed for his size, decent offense. Terrible defence though (yet decent chin) and hasn't learnt the inside game. Not the most co-ordinated, punched himself and looks like he's off balance a lot. I think he's got some raw talent but needs a hell of a lot of polishing and also I don't rate his power at all. 4/10.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rate the Chances of these European Heavies

I'm interested in some of the time frames before any of these HWs might be ready to fight for a title. A lot depends on who will be the holder of course and if Wlad is going to fade or not.
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