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Old 12-28-2010, 07:59 AM   #16
Il Duce
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Beep,

For the May 25, 1975 rematch in Boston.
Sonny Liston used for his chief sparring partners;
Amos Lincoln and Wille Ray Richardson

He did use a couple of secondary guys briefly;
Leroy Green (5-days)
Abe Davis (one-day)
Buster Reed (one-day)
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:08 AM   #17
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

One forgotten point,

After the fight in Lewiston, Maine.

Amos Lincoln had the last fight of the night, after the Ali-Liston fiasco.
While waiting for the circus atmosphere in the arena to clear out, an
Associated Press Reporter, Dave Guilland, asked Amos Lincoln a question.

'Amos, do you believe what just happened?

Amos Lincoln (Listons sparring partner) replied;
'I could have done that anyday I wanted to, for the last 6 weeks'
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
One forgotten point,

After the fight in Lewiston, Maine.

Amos Lincoln had the last fight of the night, after the Ali-Liston fiasco.
While waiting for the circus atmosphere in the arena to clear out, an
Associated Press Reporter, Dave Guilland, asked Amos Lincoln a question.

'Amos, do you believe what just happened?

Amos Lincoln (Listons sparring partner) replied;
'I could have done that anyday I wanted to, for the last 6 weeks'
when do you think liston had gone from monster to nonentity ?? was it over night or had it been a slower process ??
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:08 AM   #19
Il Duce
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

turpinr,

Faults in Sonny Liston's armor started to develop in 1960.
Easy blow-out fights in 1961, then the (2) Floyd Patterson, fights where it was
offensive bombardment.

Sparring partners were getting to him. If a sparring partner made him look bad,
his trainers (Willie Reddish and Milt Bailey) would get rid of them, instead of trying to work on improving Sonny.

He was, when working out, a perfect fighting machine, and a physical marvel.
But after 5 rounds, he sort of just lumbered through the motions.
To make him look good in sparring, the trainers erected a 10' x 10' boxing ring.

I do remember a couple of times at the Pines in the summer of 1962, a pretty tough kid
and football player, James McCarter just mauling Liston all over the ring in the later rounds of sparring.
He just kept wearing Liston down, by pulling on Sonny.

In late 1963, things were just too easy for Liston, and he just cruised.
The 12 hard years of boxing were wearing him out.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Beep,

Sonny Liston was prepping in Denver in March and April 65'.
He stayed in Denver thru Easter 4/18/65.
Sparring partners out there were;

Amos 'Big Train' Lincoln, age 30, 6' 3" 205 lbs. 30-5-1 (19 KO's)
Portland, Oregon

Don 'Toro Smith' Smith, age 27, 6' 3" 240 lbs. 6-4-1 (6 KO's)
Pittsburg, Pennsylvania

Chauncy Hudson (170 lb. amateur)
Denver, Colorado

Whoever was his main manager, no one knows, because no one visited him.
Archie Pirolli was his camp manager.

Then he left for Dedham, Massachussetts after Easter, 4/18/65.

For a guy that was going to take a pre-set 'dive', he sure didn't show it.
He was up running, at 5:30 AM, every morning.

Last edited by Il Duce; 12-28-2010 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

DEEEVO,

The LA Times boxing reporter A. Kram, was reporting that Liston was getting tagged
over and over by Amos Lincoln.
Then it was reported that Amos Lincoln was paid extra money, to stay as a
stationary sparring partner for the last few sessions, to make Liston look good.

The Boston Globe had an article, stating 'slow flows the Maine syrup, and its name is Sonny Liston'.

Terry Downes, the British Middleweight Champ, reporting for a U.K. newspaper,
said 'Liston moved like a Freight Train pullling out of a rail-yard'.

After the fight, Terry Downes said of the Phantom Punch, 'I've hit my daughter harder'
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

JJJ,,
For all the money Sonny Liston was supposed to have gotten from the
Patterson II fight, Liston-Clay I and Ali-Liston II, plus the revenue he was due from
InterContinental Promotions, Inc.

And so-called 'betting money', the guy was so low on funds, that he had to
borrow $3000 from the bank to go to Sweden, the first trip in 1966.
He had to put up his black Cadillac up as collateral, so he could take his wife and
friend/sparring partner Foneda Cox.

Jack Nilon, his former manager, went along as an advisor.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:42 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Was there any benefit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for Sonny Liston to win that fight.

He actually made more money for losing the fight.

A) His Corporation had the promotional rights for Muhammad Ali's next fight.

B) If Sonny had won the bout, there were no State Boxing Commissions other
than Maine and Kentucky who would sanction the bout.

C) Las Vegas wanted the next Heavyweight Championship bout, as long as
Sonny Liston was not involved. He couldn't fight there, because he had his Boxing License revoked.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

According 2 this Liston was simply old & shot , didn't take a dive .
Do u or any1 know in which year he was born ? 1927 or 1932 or maybe something else ?
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:00 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Sonny,,,,,,,,,

Was probably more mentally de-moralized than anything else.

Nobody cared if he won.

And the old 'Mob' connections were fading out of the picture.

Jimmy Cannon said it best, 'If Sonny wins this fight, he will have nowhere to go.
Nobody wants him around anymore, and the big money fights in Las Vegas will not
come his way, because he has no boxing license. The old fight club circuit which
Sonny was groomed from is over, now its big money arena's and closed circuit broadcasts,
both of which Sonny doesn't fit into.'
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:04 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Strange atmosphere up in Lewiston, Maine.

The day before the fight, the town held the State Cheerleader Championships,
and a big parade through the downtown Lewiston.

A carnival atmosphere.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:14 AM   #27
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

AP Photo from Saturday - November 14, 1964

Sonny Liston and his wife Geraldine in Plymouth, Massachusetts.

The fight for Monday November 16th at the Boston Garden had been cancelled.

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Old 11-06-2012, 12:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

So Pepe was the fix in fully,that is both sides were complant or was it just from Sonny's side?
Despite Ali's claim afterwards of he'd developed the "phantom punch" he seemed the most shocked person in the house when Sonny went down,he gestured for Sonny to get up shouting "get up ya bum".
Whatever happened that night,I don't think Ali new anything about it.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ali - Liston II "Pre-Fight Info'

Ron U.K.

The originally scheduled bout for November 16, 1964 was 'conveniently postponed',
as the 'Marginal Tax Laws' were changed, and in 1965 boxers would be able to keep
more of their fight purse.


Everything 'points' to Sonny throwing the bout in Lewiston, Maine.

Could Sonny beat Cassius in a 'legitimate' bout in May 1965 - that is a tough one.

Sonny sparring with Lee Williams (October 26, 1964)

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Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 11-06-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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