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Old 12-08-2007, 05:42 PM   #76
janitor
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by mattdonnellon
I think(as many at the time did, including Jeff) that Joe hit as hard as Bob but he didnt prove as good a FINISHER. Fitz was much more than a puncher, indeed on this thread overated as a puncher, but he was an extremely cute and calculating as well as tough.
I will only say that if you look into newspaer acounts of Choynski fights it quickly becomes aparent that win loose or draw he always took his oponent to the brink of disaster at one point in the fight.

When he did win at heavyweight it was his finishing ability that won it for him.

I would also add that some of fights that he lost or drew on boxrec were clear cut wins for him.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:49 PM   #77
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Sam Langford knocked out harry wills and beat sam mcvea, Joe Jeannete Janitor. these are big skilled powerful heavyweights, type of guys that fitz never beat.
Sam Langford is always going to be a hard standard to hold sombody up to.

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the only true fights we can judge fitz on against a ATG heavy, he was knocked out twice by jeffries.
I disagree.

Jim Corbett was seen as a lock for a top 5 spot at heavyweight untill about 1950.

Tom Sharkey was a handfull for anybody. Jeffries called him his best opponent but Fitz just demolished him.

Quote:
Fitz appears to fight with too much bareknuckle era style, and not enough modernized boxing style(like langford).
Fitz had a unique style that almost transcended eras.

You bit on a feint and the next thing you knew was that smelling salts were under your nose.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:57 PM   #78
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

I respect your points, but I don't have him that high.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:50 PM   #79
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

Maher fought numerous black opponents, Jackson, CC Smith, Craig, Klondike, Godfrey, Stevenson, Clarke etc. Choynski fought Godfrey, one Jack Jackson.
Corbett fought Jackson. Sharkey did avoid blacks, he was a racist. Fact is there were not many more top black fighters pre-1900 Griffin and Childs would be the others. Martin was a great boxer, but a bit flaky esp. to the body.
McVey and Jeannette were great fighters but the white men of the 1910-15 era were lesser men than the pre-1900's lot. Langford was an ATG but so was Fitz. Sandy Ferguson, Jack Johnson,Gunboat, Fulton, Jeff Clarke, Jim Johnson, McVey, Jeannette and Ketchell all did well against Sam-this is not boxrecism, i've read the reports. Dont dismiss the white opponents of Bob or indeed Fitz himself because of revisionist thinking.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:54 PM   #80
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

[quote=janitor]
Quote:

I will only say that if you look into newspaer acounts of Choynski fights it quickly becomes aparent that win loose or draw he always took his oponent to the brink of disaster at one point in the fight.

When he did win at heavyweight it was his finishing ability that won it for him.

I would also add that some of fights that he lost or drew on boxrec were clear cut wins for him.
I dunno, you seem to be agreeing with me that Joe was a great fighter but not a great finisher!
I'm not a boxrec freak, I have read clippings of most of Choynskys fights whom i hold in high esteem.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

[quote=mattdonnellon]
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Originally Posted by janitor
I dunno, you seem to be agreeing with me that Joe was a great fighter but not a great finisher!
I'm not a boxrec freak, I have read clippings of most of Choynskys fights whom i hold in high esteem.
You have forced me to take a closer look here. Choynski did have a lot more people in trouble than he put away.

I will however say that one thing that stands out about him is that you only had to make one mistake and you were on queer street. I will also say that his actual record vs his best oponents is a lot better than his paper record suggests. He often had to take fights on verry unfavourable terms. There are at least three fights where he should have got a win but didnt.
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