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Old 02-11-2011, 01:30 PM   #16
Jorodz
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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Thats only because Pacquaio is physically bigger than Marquez, Marquez is older now and styles make fights.

Marquez is a great fighter, a real champion who took on all manner of styles whether boxer movers, slick defensive fighters, pressure fighters, punchers, or raw physica phenomenons over 3 divisions and is still a lineal champ at the age of 37 and for many fans beat the fighter of the decade twice while mounting 1 of the best comebacks from adversity in boxing history
agreed and i think the thread is leaning towards his legacy no longer being defined by what he's not: no longer is he NOT barrera or morales, no long is he NOT the guy to beat pac. he's a great fighter in his own right, on his own merits
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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I post on other boxing forums and often take heat for not holding JMM in as high esteem as most.

I agree he is one of the best of the modern era.

I do think there are some legitimate criticisms of him though.

Really outside of being 0-1-1 verse Pac what truly great win is on his resume? Barrera is good but was past his prime and the fight was close. Casamayor was a solid win but again past his prime.
You can argue that he won John but not Norwood. Even so the official record is a loss to both. The Mayweather fight was a disaster for him. So where is the great wins in a period when there were plenty of good fighters in his weight area? Sure it could be people were ducking him but many fighters started out ducked but forced themselves into the middle of the mix. Nobody wanted to fight Winky Wright but he made it happen.



His style is good. He is a pure counter puncher. Solid defense. His right hand is on the elite level. When I watch videos I just don't see him measuring up to a Sanchez, Pep, Saddler and definitely not the great lightweights.
i honestly haven't seen much of saddler but i do see marquez measuring up quite well to sanchez on film (cue anger of sanchez supporters)
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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Saddler is made to measure for Marquez, you can't take a punch to land a punch against Dinamita

Saddler is one of the greatest punchers in history. I don't think JMM would want to be taking punches from him.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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Saddler is one of the greatest punchers in history. I don't think JMM would want to be taking punches from him.
That wouldn't happen because Marquez's punches would get their first as they are much straighter and faster, Saddler plods and wasn't very elusive, Saddler also leaves his jab out there too long, which would see JMM throw right counters down the pipe time and again, as Saddler comes inside he would be punnished with Marquezs short sharp uppercuts. Saddler isn't landing those wide lead left hooks on Marquez too often

Made to measure for Marquez
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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That wouldn't happen because Marquez's punches would get their first as they are much straighter and faster, Saddler plods and wasn't very elusive, Saddler also leaves his jab out there too long, which would see JMM throw right counters down the pipe time and again, as Saddler comes inside he would be punnished with Marquezs short sharp uppercuts. Saddler isn't landing those wide lead left hooks on Marquez too often

Made to measure for Marquez
just to throw a little something into the mix: how do you feel about saddler's ability to crowd and dirty up a fight? with those right counters landing, i see him swarming marquez, landing everything he can above and below the belt. i don't know how well jmm responds to that....
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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Thats only because Pacquaio is physically bigger than Marquez, Marquez is older now and styles make fights.
So physicality doesn't factor into h2h? Pac and Marquez weighed in with about a 2lb difference on their last fight nights btw, the size difference is much overstated.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

I think people have rated this man as great because of his association with Pacman instead of what he has accomplished, which is short of great.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

He gets overrated by many, of course, but he's one of few from this generation of fighters that I'll remember fondly in the years to come.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: JMM's Legacy-Where does it land?

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For me, Juan Manuel Marquez may have reached a turning point with his exciting, but so far short, reign as lightweight champion

Looking back through the years, his legacy seemed set in stone and yet has changed constantly...

Legacy 1-unknown mexican technician who lost to Norwood

Legacy 2-brilliant mexican technician who Hamed avoided like the plague

Legacy 3-distant 3rd in the trio of brilliant mexican featherweights of the era

Legacy 4-the man who gave a prime pacquiao his toughest fights

Legacy 5-not so distant 3rd (many would argue 1st or 2nd) in the trio of brilliant mexican featherweights of the era

Legacy 6-The longest lasting and most technically superior of the 3

Legacy 7-Champion at feather, super feather and lightweight champ...avoided by pacquiao (according to some) and a surefire HOF

Legacy 8-?

So in the end, 20 years from now let's say, which one of the above will be applicable? Will there be a new legacy forged?
I think he's generally overrated. Barrera was technically better than him, proven by the way MAB outjabbed and outboxed him for significant spells in their fight despite being years past his best. Marquez's resume is pretty shabby compared to those of Morales, Barrera and Pacquiao. He's a cracking fighter, but his career is not that of an ATG IMO. I rank him above the Tszyus and the Calzaghes, on par with the Mosleys and the Trinidads, but well below the Barreras, Morales's and De La Hoyas.
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