tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of punches - Page 3

Seamus · 02-07-2011, 04:41 PM

this is probably my biggest pet peave of the modern fight game. Chavez-Taylor is a great example. How about Hagler-Leonard, also? Ali was a good part sham during much of the 70's. The clowning, meaningless, inaccurate flurries, incessant clinching, holding and hitting, grabbing the ropes, taking the role of punching bag. I find it largely unwatchable.

Swarmer · 02-07-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Cosell was comical.
He had his favourites for sure.

his commentary during Benvenuti Monzon=

Il Duce · 02-07-2011, 04:46 PM

Just watch the Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young fight closely.

Then look at the Judges scorecards. Giving Ali rounds, whem he hit nothing but air.
And Howard Cosell screaming,
'Now he's back to dancing and boxing, he's the Ali of old.'
'Back when he was giving Sonny Liston a boxing lesson in Miami Beach'
'This is what we've been waiting for'

Then Jimmy Young pops Ali, with a perfect counter, right into Ali's face.

Howard shut up, and didn't say a word, he didn't even acknowledge Jimmy's good
scoring blow, one of the best of the fight.

Johnstown · 02-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

Just watch the Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young fight closely.

Then look at the Judges scorecards. Giving Ali rounds, whem he hit nothing but air.
And Howard Cosell screaming,
'Now he's back to dancing and boxing, he's the Ali of old.'
'Back when he was giving Sonny Liston a boxing lesson in Miami Beach'
'This is what we've been waiting for'

Then Jimmy Young pops Ali, with a perfect counter, right into Ali's face.

Howard shut up, and didn't say a word, he didn't even acknowledge Jimmy's good
scoring blow, one of the best of the fight.

Cosell was a jack ass

Vince Voltage · 02-08-2011, 02:20 AM

Howard had a total man-crush on Ali. He was like a nerdy school kid wanting to hang out and be accepted by the big jock. It made for a lot of biased commentary and further distortion of the Ali legend/myth.

round15 · 02-08-2011, 12:26 PM

Some say Ali's pittypat bogus flurries are what stole him two victories from Norton and arguably the second fight with Frazier. Both opponents said repeatedly in interviews that Ali's punches had no sting, no zip and was basically for show. Once or twice in the round he'd sit down on a hard shot.

Il Duce · 02-08-2011, 12:41 PM

Mac Foster on Muhammad Ali's punches,

'The dentist's needle has more sting than Ali's punches.'
'Look at me, I went 15 rounds with Ali, and not a mark.'

'Oh yeah, he can outbox me in a boxing ring the size of a football field, but
in a telephone booth, he doesn't get out alive.'

Brent Musberger, announcing Ali's fight 'joke fight' versus Jean Pierre Coopman,
'Ali is so fast and powerful, even when he misses punches, Coopman looks like he might fall.'

WTF,,,,,Brent

highguard · 02-10-2011, 11:12 AM

well i do think that ali mixed up his pitty pat flurries with hard shots here and there
and he could punch hard when he wanted too

that said yeah his punching techique was that not that great which caused hand injuries often,

but if he did not punch hard at all, all these guys would walked through his punches and been sitting at the end of them all the time...ie mac foster

all that being he got gift decisons and no matter what he did
guys like cossel would think it is brilliant even if he was misssing by a mile

but yes in a phone booth mac foster would put him to sleep no
doubts

the grabbing and holding by the head he did was also annoying
and again the tv guys pretended nothing was going on

Bokaj · 02-10-2011, 12:01 PM

The fights where Ali displayed the best leveraged punching were imo Liston I, Williams (Williams was very much target practice, though), Frazier I (before he gassed), Quarry II, Foreman and Frazier III. I can't see much fault with his punching in these fights. There weren't much flurrying against Lyle either, and his punching looked solid after he came off the floor against Banks. Similarily with Cooper.

In these instances I think Ali got the most out of his potential in terms of power. The combination he felled Foreman with was sublime. How many other HWs have you seen letting loose such a combination with such accuracy during a 270 degree turn?

burt bienstock · 02-10-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red cobra

It speaks of why it's often better to watch a fight with the sound off...so you can't hear what they're saying.

RC, WISE WORDS. Ali was 50% glitz,and glamour. Joe Louis was all about
DEMOLITION !

McGrain · 02-10-2011, 06:16 PM

Holy shit. What the fuck is happening?

MagnaNasakki · 02-10-2011, 08:52 PM

Yeah, he was sure guilty of that sometimes.
Knocked Foreman out. Punched plenty hard then.
Beat Frazier so badly in Manila Eddie Futch said no mas. Hurt him 4 times, nearly did him in by clean KO. Punched plenty.
Essentially stopped Ron Lyle with one punch.

Ali had his tricks to win fights. He had a ton of flash. But the utter ignorance complicit in ignoring the substance? Saying all Ali did was throw pitty pat flurries is asinine when he has stoppage victories over some of the toughest fighters in heavyweight history.

highguard · 02-12-2011, 03:45 AM

no one is saying that is all he did

what is clear is that he got credit often in a situation
where the other guy should get credit

makeing a guy miss with 6 punches
is harder to do then missing with 6 punches

and is ofcourse more skillful

TheGreatA · 02-12-2011, 06:02 AM

We should also acknowledge that not all of those pretty flurries missed, and they may have hurt quite a bit more than is being made out to be here.

Frazier had a simple strategy to counter this move of Ali's, he'd make him miss and then land a solid blow of his own as Ali's hands were down. As a result he took a good amount of punishment though because Ali would throw 3-4 punches to every one of his.

For the critics, this is a great example of Frazier making Ali miss many of the punches, and landing his own left hook:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7RjPJbvMiI[/ame]

2:20

Of course in the later rounds those flurries of punches started to tell on Frazier.

02-07-2011, 04:41 PM	#31
Seamus Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lisboa, Portugal Posts: 10,061 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun this is probably my biggest pet peave of the modern fight game. Chavez-Taylor is a great example. How about Hagler-Leonard, also? Ali was a good part sham during much of the 70's. The clowning, meaningless, inaccurate flurries, incessant clinching, holding and hitting, grabbing the ropes, taking the role of punching bag. I find it largely unwatchable.
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02-07-2011, 04:46 PM	#33
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Just watch the Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young fight closely. Then look at the Judges scorecards. Giving Ali rounds, whem he hit nothing but air. And Howard Cosell screaming, 'Now he's back to dancing and boxing, he's the Ali of old.' 'Back when he was giving Sonny Liston a boxing lesson in Miami Beach' 'This is what we've been waiting for' Then Jimmy Young pops Ali, with a perfect counter, right into Ali's face. Howard shut up, and didn't say a word, he didn't even acknowledge Jimmy's good scoring blow, one of the best of the fight.
Top

02-08-2011, 02:20 AM	#35
Vince Voltage Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 886 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Howard had a total man-crush on Ali. He was like a nerdy school kid wanting to hang out and be accepted by the big jock. It made for a lot of biased commentary and further distortion of the Ali legend/myth.
Top

02-08-2011, 12:26 PM	#36
round15 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,685 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Some say Ali's pittypat bogus flurries are what stole him two victories from Norton and arguably the second fight with Frazier. Both opponents said repeatedly in interviews that Ali's punches had no sting, no zip and was basically for show. Once or twice in the round he'd sit down on a hard shot.
Top

02-08-2011, 12:41 PM	#37
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Mac Foster on Muhammad Ali's punches, 'The dentist's needle has more sting than Ali's punches.' 'Look at me, I went 15 rounds with Ali, and not a mark.' 'Oh yeah, he can outbox me in a boxing ring the size of a football field, but in a telephone booth, he doesn't get out alive.' Brent Musberger, announcing Ali's fight 'joke fight' versus Jean Pierre Coopman, 'Ali is so fast and powerful, even when he misses punches, Coopman looks like he might fall.' WTF,,,,,Brent
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02-10-2011, 11:12 AM	#38
highguard Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 847 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun well i do think that ali mixed up his pitty pat flurries with hard shots here and there and he could punch hard when he wanted too that said yeah his punching techique was that not that great which caused hand injuries often, but if he did not punch hard at all, all these guys would walked through his punches and been sitting at the end of them all the time...ie mac foster all that being he got gift decisons and no matter what he did guys like cossel would think it is brilliant even if he was misssing by a mile but yes in a phone booth mac foster would put him to sleep no doubts the grabbing and holding by the head he did was also annoying and again the tv guys pretended nothing was going on
Top

02-10-2011, 12:01 PM	#39
Bokaj Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12,295 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun The fights where Ali displayed the best leveraged punching were imo Liston I, Williams (Williams was very much target practice, though), Frazier I (before he gassed), Quarry II, Foreman and Frazier III. I can't see much fault with his punching in these fights. There weren't much flurrying against Lyle either, and his punching looked solid after he came off the floor against Banks. Similarily with Cooper. In these instances I think Ali got the most out of his potential in terms of power. The combination he felled Foreman with was sublime. How many other HWs have you seen letting loose such a combination with such accuracy during a 270 degree turn?
Top

02-10-2011, 06:16 PM	#41
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,236 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Holy shit. What the fuck is happening?
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02-10-2011, 08:52 PM	#42
MagnaNasakki Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,819 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Yeah, he was sure guilty of that sometimes. Knocked Foreman out. Punched plenty hard then. Beat Frazier so badly in Manila Eddie Futch said no mas. Hurt him 4 times, nearly did him in by clean KO. Punched plenty. Essentially stopped Ron Lyle with one punch. Ali had his tricks to win fights. He had a ton of flash. But the utter ignorance complicit in ignoring the substance? Saying all Ali did was throw pitty pat flurries is asinine when he has stoppage victories over some of the toughest fighters in heavyweight history.
Top

02-12-2011, 03:45 AM	#43
highguard Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 847 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun no one is saying that is all he did what is clear is that he got credit often in a situation where the other guy should get credit makeing a guy miss with 6 punches is harder to do then missing with 6 punches and is ofcourse more skillful
Top

02-12-2011, 06:02 AM	#44
TheGreatA Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7,116 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun We should also acknowledge that not all of those pretty flurries missed, and they may have hurt quite a bit more than is being made out to be here. Frazier had a simple strategy to counter this move of Ali's, he'd make him miss and then land a solid blow of his own as Ali's hands were down. As a result he took a good amount of punishment though because Ali would throw 3-4 punches to every one of his. For the critics, this is a great example of Frazier making Ali miss many of the punches, and landing his own left hook: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7RjPJbvMiI[/ame] 2:20 Of course in the later rounds those flurries of punches started to tell on Frazier.
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