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Old 02-15-2011, 11:28 AM   #1
Il Duce
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Default ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Jerry Quarry
Floyd Patterson II
Oscar Bonavena
Buster Mathis
Thad Spencer
George Chuvalo II
Leotis Martin
Ernie Terrell II
Manuel Ramos
Eduardo Corletti
Jimmy Ellis
Dante Cane
Piero Tomasoni
Roger Russell
Dick Hall
Johnny Persol
James J Beattie
Jose Luis Garcia
Al Jones
Henry Clark
Boone Kirkman
Sonny Liston III
'Smokin Joe' Frazier

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-15-2011 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

I think there's a real possibility Urtain could be added to that list. He was hot until Cooper got to him in November 1970 to regain the European Title. With his win in the first Blin fight, the physically powerful Urtain proved himself over the championship distance, and the EBU crown could get the holder a shot at Ali.

Henry Clark might have been interesting. He was the first heavyweight contender to openly idolize Ali, shared Muhammad's stature, was durable, and had decent skills. He could well have been the first challenger for Ali younger than Muhammad himself. (Even during his second reign, Wepner and Lyle were actually older than he was. Bugner was the one really youthful challenger he had during his prime.) Only Terrell and Chuvalo went the championship distance with Ali prior to the FOTC, and Clark very possibly also extends him the limit.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Jose Urtain


Muhammad Ali could have had his own 'White Hopeless Club'

James J. Beattie, James J. Woody, Boone Kirkman, Jack O'Halloran, Jerry Quarry, Dick Hall, Chuck Wepner
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Jose Urtain


Muhammad Ali could have had his own 'White Hopeless Club'

James J. Beattie, James J. Woody, Boone Kirkman, Jack O'Halloran, Jerry Quarry, Dick Hall, Chuck Wepner
You forgot Bodell, a southpaw in every way. Left handed with two left feet. The catch here may have been the stylistic difficulties Ali had with southpaws like Mildenberger, and in the amateur ranks. (Regardless, the fact remains that Muhammad was the first heavyweight champion to defend against a southpaw challenger, and he showed with Dunn that he solved the riddle, leaving his jab and awkward counterclockwise circling at home, and going straight to the right lead.)

I'm mildly surprised he didn't take on O'Halloran after the big guy retired Ali's brother Rahman. The angle of fraternal revenge against the giant white boy would have sold it. Jack had some decent wins. It would be interesting to have him compare the power of Norton, Lyle, Big Cat, Foreman and Mac Foster (taking on the latter two in back to back knockout defeats). He's active on-line, so he may well have already addressed some of these boxing related questions from fans. (I don't do facebook myself, and possibly never will.)
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Muhammad Ali could have had
*) Danny McAlinden,,, after Jurgen Blin in London.

Danny MAC wanted Ali bad, and he was crazier than Muhammad.
That's why Ali backed off.

Danny Mac showed up at Ali's training camp with a 'chicken dressed as a U.S Army
soldier' with a little uniform, helmet and gun.

And called Ali a coward, draft dodger, racist and communist, a cheating husband,
thief, liar, and an uneducated bloke.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

An Ali global roadshow probably could of taken in Greg Peralta at Luna Park
- Greg had Drawn with Bonavena so had some Merritt.

Perhaps a bit too early for Jeff Merritt, a young hot-shot who Blooded Ali's nose in Sparring,(circa 1970) forcing Ali to Cut Loose and steady Jeff, Breaking Shavers Jaw and Koing Terrell and Stander were a little way off

Interestingly Ali every so Often spoke of wanting Revenge on Kent Green for an Ametuer stoppage defeat , ( ali's only stoppage loss until Holmes ) - maybe the revenge angle could of ran, if Kent was willing to come out of recent retirement ( but behind the scenes Ali and Kent were onfriendly terms) .
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

To get under the U.S. Government's skin, Ali probably would have went on
a 'White Hopeless Tournament'

Not qualified, unless they were 'whitey'.
Then take on the 'Black White Hope' Floyd Patterson one more time.
Ali did enjoy that type of scenario,,,,,,,beating 'whitey'
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Jerry Quarry
Floyd Patterson II
Oscar Bonavena
Buster Mathis
Thad Spencer
George Chuvalo II
Leotis Martin
Ernie Terrell II
Manuel Ramos
Eduardo Corletti
Jimmy Ellis
Dante Cane
Piero Tomasoni
Roger Russell
Dick Hall
Johnny Persol
James J Beattie
Jose Luis Garcia
Al Jones
Henry Clark
Boone Kirkman
Sonny Liston III
'Smokin Joe' Frazier
Eddie Machen- Machen would have had his moments

Patterson would have given Ali more problems during this time than he did when they fought in '65 and '72.
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Manuel Ramos, at 6' 3" 220 lbs.,,,,,,,,,big right hand.

A more dangerous opponent than Eddie or Ernie or Floyd, for 1967/1968.
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
Eddie Machen- Machen would have had his moments.
No.

Machen went 0-2 in '67. He was unranked, and likely would have done rather less well than a shot Cleveland Williams.
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

do you expect him to fight every single contender
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygun711 View Post
do you expect him to fight every single contender
Yes,,,,,at least once per month,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

James J. Woody deserved a shot,,,,,,,,he was a southpaw from 'Da Bronx'
1966, he was 10-0-0 (1 KO). He would have went longer than Sonny in Maine.

Jerry Tomasetti,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he had at least had 2 good legs,,
1968, 14-4-0 (10 KO's), and he had a W KO 5 over Chuck Wepner (who was Chuck Wepner again)

Eddie Machen was
1964,,,,a good contender
1965,,,,a capable contender
1966,,,,a faded contender, but still cagey
1967,,,,a trial-horse
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Boone Kirkman a great white hope, good looking, blue collar fighter with a great record would have made a huge event at the box office in Seattle. Kirkman was a big draw packing out the Coliseum many times.

A crowd of 11,306 showed up in the summer of 1967 for his first important bout against Eddie Machen. Another 13,711
saw him beat Doug Jones a few months later and avenge his first pro defeat. He had 10,072 ringside when he defeated Jimmy
Ellis and 11,039 when he lost to Ken Norton a year later.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mighty One View Post
Boone Kirkman a great white hope, good looking, blue collar fighter with a great record would have made a huge event at the box office in Seattle. Kirkman was a big draw packing out the Coliseum many times.

A crowd of 11,306 showed up in the summer of 1967 for his first important bout against Eddie Machen. Another 13,711
saw him beat Doug Jones a few months later and avenge his first pro defeat. He had 10,072 ringside when he defeated Jimmy
Ellis and 11,039 when he lost to Ken Norton a year later.

Yes,

But Muhammad didn't like the cold weather or lumberjacks.

Do agree, they could have drawn 50,000+ up there.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: ALI's (Possible Opponents 1967 thru 1970)

I've always said we never saw Ali in his prime (summer of 67 to summer of 70)
Many fighters you mentioned would have been in that time frame of mix.
He would have been a monster:
Bonavena was on the table for the summer of 67.
Spencer would have been iced before mid-68.
Leotis would have been iced before mid-68.
Mathias would have fallen like a giant oak.
Quarry would have been brutalized in 68 or 69.
Ellis would have been a boxing match beat down (much worse than July of 71) in 68 or 69.
A Frazier fight...probably would have been held up until mid-69 and....tho a tough scrap, Ali would have put the stoppage on him in the late rounds at that time IMO.
We may have also seen a Peralta title fight from Luna Park, Argentina sometime in 69-70.
Be ye for or against Ali, he (by his own efforts) never let us see his prime potential.
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