Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight.

rekcutnevets · 07-04-2007, 09:57 AM

I don't understand this, Roy is in a lot of peoples top 10 at middleweight all time. The only high quality win he has at middleweight is against Bernard Hopkins. That's a good win to have, but Hopkins had yet to establish himself.

Jones exhibited arguably to most athletic talent at this weight, but his record does not include enough quality to get a top 10 all time rating.

I do rank Jones as the best super middleweight ever, based mainly on his win over James Toney. If not for Jones, Toney would be my choice there.

In fact, I think Toney should rate higher all time at middleweight than Jones. Toney accomplished more at this weight. I believe Toney's wins over Merqui Sosa, Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, and Mike McCallum out weigh Jones victory over Hopkins alone.

RAMPAGE0017 · 07-04-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

I don't understand this, Roy is in a lot of peoples top 10 at middleweight all time. The only high quality win he has at middleweight is against Bernard Hopkins. That's a good win to have, but Hopkins had yet to establish himself.

Jones exhibited arguably to most athletic talent at this weight, but his record does not include enough quality to get a top 10 all time rating.

I do rank Jones as the best super middleweight ever, based mainly on his win over James Toney. If not for Jones, Toney would be my choice there.

In fact, I think Toney should rate higher all time at middleweight than Jones. Toney accomplished more at this weight. I believe Toney's wins over Merqui Sosa, Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, and Mike McCallum out weigh Jones victory over Hopkins alone.

The only thing that Hopkins lacked when he fought Jones was a win over a marquee fighter ( Trinidad ), other than that, he was the same fighter then as he is today.

achillesthegreat · 07-04-2007, 11:04 AM

He lost all of about 4 reasonably equal rounds and against a top 5 160. I think people also included his raping of Toney. It is indictive of how he'd handle quality middleweights.

Jones on paper and on tape was a bad man. It's simple.

Mendoza · 07-04-2007, 11:05 AM

Jones defeated Hopinks and Toney at middle weight. Roy was simply too fast and too good for two future hall of fame fighters at middle weight, so he deserves to be rated highly at middle weight.

RAMPAGE0017 · 07-04-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azim

Yeah, as much as the Ali of today is the Ali of 1974.
It´s the same with Jones like it is with Tyson, Ali or the Klitschkos, tey were/are all good or great fighters but there fans just make more out of them than they really are/were.

I don't feel like I'm overrating Jones at all, I felt like I was stating a fact??

Anyhow, in my opinion, Hopkins gave one of his best tactical performances in that fight, but Jones was just too fast for him. I don't see any difference between the Hopkins who fought Jones and the Hopkins who fought Trinidad.

Doppleganger · 07-04-2007, 11:16 AM

He isn't in my top 10 on accomplishments as his body of work isn't enough (head to head is a different matter though). Sure he beat Toney and Hopkins but neither man was at his best when they fought Jones. That's not to take away anything from Jones as he'd beat them even if they were at their bests. In saying that though I'd fancy him over many of the people I would have in my top 10.

rekcutnevets · 07-04-2007, 11:24 AM

Jones beat Toney at 168, not 160. It does not count as a 160 win, because it was not there.

RAMPAGE0017 · 07-04-2007, 11:34 AM

Does anybody even know why they say Hopkins was green when he fought Jones, or do they only say this because he lost?

rekcutnevets · 07-04-2007, 12:22 PM

I didn't say he was green. I said he wasn't established. It was not a mega fight when it happened. It is a big deal in hind sight. Still, it was Jones only major win at middleweight. If you are not talking head to head, but your are talking accomplishments, you can find 10 guys to put ahead of Jones at middleweight.

Cobra33 · 07-04-2007, 12:22 PM

Hopkins kept learning after the Jones bout and was clearly an improved fighter as a result.
Think about it.If Hopkins was the same boxer then Jones would have accepted the proposed rematch.He didn't because he knew Hopkins had raised his game up since his bout with Jones.
Toney was just a complete idiot for his bout with Jones.He was undisciplined and it cost him.That I don't blame Roy for.But I would have loved to see a Toney in shape fight Jones.Not saying he would have beaten Roy but it would have been different.

RAMPAGE0017 · 07-04-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra33

Hopkins kept learning after the Jones bout and was clearly an improved fighter as a result.
Think about it.If Hopkins was the same boxer then Jones would have accepted the proposed rematch.He didn't because he knew Hopkins had raised his game up since his bout with Jones.
Toney was just a complete idiot for his bout with Jones.He was undisciplined and it cost him.That I don't blame Roy for.But I would have loved to see a Toney in shape fight Jones.Not saying he would have beaten Roy but it would have been different.

I already have thought about it, and I've come to the conclusion that the Hopkins in the Jones fight was as good as the Hopkins in future fights, as well.

As for the rematch, Jones offered him a reasonable 60/40 split, and Hopkins refused. So.. if you want to blame someone for no rematch then blame Hopkins. If he wanted a rematch against Jones so badly then he should've met Jones' fair demand.

Senya13 · 07-04-2007, 12:30 PM

For the same reason why Harry Greb and Mickey Walker are ranked high at 160lb too.

brooklyn1550 · 07-04-2007, 12:31 PM

Talent wise, he could have been a top 10 middleweight had he stayed there, but accomplishment wise, he is no where near the top 10.

RAMPAGE0017 · 07-04-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

I didn't say he was green. I said he wasn't established. It was not a mega fight when it happened. It is a big deal in hind sight. Still, it was Jones only major win at middleweight. If you are not talking head to head, but your are talking accomplishments, you can find 10 guys to put ahead of Jones at middleweight.

I was referring to Doppleganger's comment, but more so the public perception in general. I often see comments of how Hopkins " wasn't at his best when he fought Jones ".

JohnThomas1 · 07-05-2007, 04:41 AM

Hopkins hit his straps a full few years after the Jones fight and his second 160 title fight is proclaimed as the fight that turned his career around. After this he was as good as he could be.

Jones is rated highly at 160 mostly on head to head. I would not be surprised to see him defeat plenty of the top 10 middleweights, even the top few.

07-04-2007, 09:57 AM	#1
rekcutnevets Black Sash East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: InYourMouth, NC Posts: 6,544 vCash: 1000	Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. I don't understand this, Roy is in a lot of peoples top 10 at middleweight all time. The only high quality win he has at middleweight is against Bernard Hopkins. That's a good win to have, but Hopkins had yet to establish himself. Jones exhibited arguably to most athletic talent at this weight, but his record does not include enough quality to get a top 10 all time rating. I do rank Jones as the best super middleweight ever, based mainly on his win over James Toney. If not for Jones, Toney would be my choice there. In fact, I think Toney should rate higher all time at middleweight than Jones. Toney accomplished more at this weight. I believe Toney's wins over Merqui Sosa, Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, and Mike McCallum out weigh Jones victory over Hopkins alone.
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07-04-2007, 11:04 AM	#3
achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,198 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. He lost all of about 4 reasonably equal rounds and against a top 5 160. I think people also included his raping of Toney. It is indictive of how he'd handle quality middleweights. Jones on paper and on tape was a bad man. It's simple.
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07-04-2007, 11:05 AM	#4
Mendoza Dominating a decade East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 14,750 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. Jones defeated Hopinks and Toney at middle weight. Roy was simply too fast and too good for two future hall of fame fighters at middle weight, so he deserves to be rated highly at middle weight.
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07-04-2007, 11:16 AM	#6
Doppleganger Il Genio ESB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 767 vCash: 800	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. He isn't in my top 10 on accomplishments as his body of work isn't enough (head to head is a different matter though). Sure he beat Toney and Hopkins but neither man was at his best when they fought Jones. That's not to take away anything from Jones as he'd beat them even if they were at their bests. In saying that though I'd fancy him over many of the people I would have in my top 10.
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07-04-2007, 11:24 AM	#7
rekcutnevets Black Sash East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: InYourMouth, NC Posts: 6,544 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. Jones beat Toney at 168, not 160. It does not count as a 160 win, because it was not there.
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07-04-2007, 11:34 AM	#8
RAMPAGE0017 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 899 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. Does anybody even know why they say Hopkins was green when he fought Jones, or do they only say this because he lost?
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07-04-2007, 12:22 PM	#9
rekcutnevets Black Sash East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: InYourMouth, NC Posts: 6,544 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. I didn't say he was green. I said he wasn't established. It was not a mega fight when it happened. It is a big deal in hind sight. Still, it was Jones only major win at middleweight. If you are not talking head to head, but your are talking accomplishments, you can find 10 guys to put ahead of Jones at middleweight.
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07-04-2007, 12:22 PM	#10
Cobra33 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,403 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. Hopkins kept learning after the Jones bout and was clearly an improved fighter as a result. Think about it.If Hopkins was the same boxer then Jones would have accepted the proposed rematch.He didn't because he knew Hopkins had raised his game up since his bout with Jones. Toney was just a complete idiot for his bout with Jones.He was undisciplined and it cost him.That I don't blame Roy for.But I would have loved to see a Toney in shape fight Jones.Not saying he would have beaten Roy but it would have been different.
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07-04-2007, 12:30 PM	#12
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,300 vCash: 1210	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. For the same reason why Harry Greb and Mickey Walker are ranked high at 160lb too.
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07-04-2007, 12:31 PM	#13
brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 12,401 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. Talent wise, he could have been a top 10 middleweight had he stayed there, but accomplishment wise, he is no where near the top 10.
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07-05-2007, 04:41 AM	#15
JohnThomas1 Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 12,184 vCash: 1000	Re: Why do people rate Roy Jones Jr. so high at middleweight. Hopkins hit his straps a full few years after the Jones fight and his second 160 title fight is proclaimed as the fight that turned his career around. After this he was as good as he could be. Jones is rated highly at 160 mostly on head to head. I would not be surprised to see him defeat plenty of the top 10 middleweights, even the top few.
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