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Old 03-09-2011, 09:25 PM   #181
SlyCoop
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Default Re: Ali overrated says Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by vince voltage View Post
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i'll play devil's advocate:

Future generations may look back on us, ali's generation, and promptly flunk us.

Muhammad ali, the greatest heavyweight ever, just because he proclaimed it ad nauseam to the high heavens?

Look at the guy:

Skinny, jumping around throwing flashy, powderpuff stuff as a young man and flicking harmless jabs, clinching, grabbing the back of the head and lying on the ropes as an old man to the breathless acclaim of his generation? Romantic fools.

There are such things as collective hypnosis and chicago cubs fans filling the sunny confines of wrigley field and emoting over the home team's foul balls, tobacco spits and other mighty exploits.

Sure, ali knocked a lot of people out, but he was almost always the bigger man in his fights. He beat up little, ancient archie moore. Big deal. His stuff would be nothing against a david tua, or ike ibeabuchi, or vitali klitschko, or other future behemoth.

Had ali fought decades later, he might have been just another chris byrd or david haye: Pretty good, but, in the end, a footnote, universally unsung, unknown, unheralded.

Ali was just lucky to be bigger, faster, more athletic than his old-time peers.

He was strictly a headhunter and often a slapper! Can this be the greatest heavyweight ever?

Liston? Inconclusive. For whatever reasons, liston quit both times and was never, ever, truly hurt by his floating foe.

Frazier? A little man who was never floored over 41 rounds by the butterfly.

Foreman? Subpar in the african climate. Fought real foolish and totally punched himself out. The opportunistic ali scored a quick-count knockout over a guy who would later be floored by the likes of jimmy young.

And, cleveland williams? Ali, at the zenith peak of his fabled powers, couldn't keep his bullet-wounded victim down. And the cat ended the fight on his feet, scowling at the stoppage.

Larry holmes was a more complete fighter: True power in both hands; a more complete repertoire than just a one-two; a faster, stronger jab; more economical and correct ring movement than jumping all over the place; though a much older champion, more title defenses than the butterfly; clearly defeated ken norton, a man ali never truly beat.

Perhaps holmes is on to something?
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prime! Beautiful post! I couldn't have analyzed it better....i totally agree with you.
To go on further, i think norton's success against ali was because he was the same size, pretty athletic, and physically stronger than muhammed. He was just fast enough, skilled enough, and strong enough to give ali a rough time. Holmes was better than norton and i think he'd have handled ali more easily. Big guys like lewis and the klitschkos would have excllent chances against ali, too. Foreman was a big, strong powerhouse but he fought foolishly and was overconfident. A more mature, intelligent giant wouldn't make such a mistake.
By the way prime, great photo....who is that?

haha
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:51 AM   #182
fistsof steel
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Default Re: Ali overrated says Larry Holmes

Gotta be on Crack.!!!!!
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:15 AM   #183
johnmaff36
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Default Re: Ali overrated says Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Voltage View Post
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
I'll play Devil's advocate:

Future generations may look back on us, Ali's generation, and promptly flunk us.

Muhammad Ali, the greatest heavyweight ever, just because he proclaimed it ad nauseam to the high heavens?

Look at the guy:

Skinny, jumping around throwing flashy, powderpuff stuff as a young man and flicking harmless jabs, clinching, grabbing the back of the head and lying on the ropes as an old man to the breathless acclaim of his generation? Romantic fools.

There are such things as collective hypnosis and Chicago Cubs fans filling the sunny confines of Wrigley Field and emoting over the home team's foul balls, tobacco spits and other mighty exploits.

Sure, Ali knocked a lot of people out, but he was almost always the bigger man in his fights. He beat up little, ancient Archie Moore. Big deal. His stuff would be nothing against a David Tua, or Ike Ibeabuchi, or Vitali Klitschko, or other future behemoth.

Had Ali fought decades later, he might have been just another Chris Byrd or David Haye: pretty good, but, in the end, a footnote, universally unsung, unknown, unheralded.

Ali was just lucky to be bigger, faster, more athletic than his old-time peers.

He was strictly a headhunter and often a slapper! Can this be the greatest heavyweight ever?

Liston? Inconclusive. For whatever reasons, Liston quit both times and was never, ever, truly hurt by his floating foe.

Frazier? A little man who was never floored over 41 rounds by the Butterfly.

Foreman? Subpar in the African climate. Fought real foolish and totally punched himself out. The opportunistic Ali scored a quick-count knockout over a guy who would later be floored by the likes of Jimmy Young.

And, Cleveland Williams? Ali, at the zenith peak of his fabled powers, couldn't keep his bullet-wounded victim down. And the Cat ended the fight on his feet, scowling at the stoppage.

Larry Holmes was a more complete fighter: true power in both hands; a more complete repertoire than just a one-two; a faster, stronger jab; more economical and correct ring movement than jumping all over the place; though a much older champion, more title defenses than the Butterfly; clearly defeated Ken Norton, a man Ali never truly beat.

Perhaps Holmes is on to something?
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Prime! Beautiful post! I couldn't have analyzed it better....I totally agree with you.
To go on further, I think Norton's success against Ali was because he was the same size, pretty athletic, and PHYSICALLY STRONGER than Muhammed. He was just fast enough, skilled enough, and strong enough to give Ali a rough time. Holmes was better than Norton and I think he'd have handled Ali more easily. Big guys like Lewis and the Klitschkos would have excllent chances against Ali, too. Foreman was a big, strong powerhouse but he fought foolishly and was overconfident. A more mature, intelligent giant wouldn't make such a mistake.
By the way Prime, great photo....who IS that?
yep, he sure was a lucky, no talented fighter
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