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Old 03-31-2011, 03:13 PM   #16
Bokaj
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Default Re: Okay, so after Liston vs Patterson

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I don't have time just now, but my thoughts, briefly.

I'm more concerned by Cus's harping on about Foreman than what I see on film. I consider Tyson mentally fragile for a great champion and it's like that this would be an issue for him. However, technically, I think Tyson should be favoured. Briefly, why, and the difference between the two fights you've compared.

1) Liston and Foreman. Liston beat Foreman with succinct, short-arm punches at that range. His own balance and technical ability are in advance of Foreman's.

2) Tyson is a power-puncher, Patterson is a really good sharp puncher. This is important too.

3) Tyson throws punches over planes that no other heavyweight threw punches over, certainly not Patterson. He could counter and lead from angles Foreman isn't prepared for and which don't compromise Tyson defensively at the range he wants to fight at.

4) Foreman's "push and punch" style is perfect for Tyson given his vast advantage in hand-speed and his explosive ability in closing the distance. As Tyson gets his to fight at his prefered distance (which almost always makes him a favourite) his vast advantage in handspeed and technical punching will tell. In short, sharp, fast power-punching is always going to trump wider slower punching. This is an absolutely crucial point and not something that was road-tested in Liston-Patterson, at all.

Both have stamina issues and those stamina issues would play Tyson into Foreman's hands but I think Tyson could Foreman out of there in about 5 which would mean it wouldn't really be a factor.

However, no money would be going down, because if they met prime for prime Tyson would be hampered by the fact that his mentor had spent his entire career telling him he couldn't beat George.
I agree with you. If Tyson loses, it's probably more down to mental factors than stylistical and technical.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Okay, so after Liston vs Patterson

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Disagree wholeheartedly. When did Tyson counter? He lead. He'd feint the guy on the outside, but it was Mike Tyson throwing first. Floyd countered more.
Tyson was an excellent counter puncher. The ones that come to mind immediatly are the left hook he floored Williams with and the right uppercut he KO'd Spinks with. Both picture perfect counters.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Okay, so after Liston vs Patterson

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I think Foremans movement would make up for it, in his prime. I dont think, in my opinion, Tyson in his prime (before Douglas imo) has ever fought anyone with better ring movement than Foreman, barring a Holmes who could only utilize it for 20 seconds.
Yeah, it must be said that Foreman has some pretty nifty moves against Frazier early on, before he figures he doesn't need them when he just can stand in front of Joe and blast him out. Not even Ali managed to sidestep Smoke like that.

That is a pretty sorry version of Frazier, though.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Okay, so after Liston vs Patterson

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I think Foremans movement would make up for it, in his prime. I dont think, in my opinion, Tyson in his prime (before Douglas imo) has ever fought anyone with better ring movement than Foreman, barring a Holmes who could only utilize it for 20 seconds.
fair enough. i guess we just see things differently. i don't think foreman would be looking like much of a mover against tyson, but who knows.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Okay, so after Liston vs Patterson

After seeing foreman twat frazier I can't see tyson winning against him.
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