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Old 04-04-2011, 07:58 PM   #46
Will Cooling
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

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I can respect that post, and agree with most. The UFC just hype there fighters way to much. They hyped Mir vs Cro Cop recently for gods sake, and it gets on your nerves. Cro Cop is beyond shot, and Mir was beaten by lesnar, and Carwin.
Styles do make fights though, and if matched up properly I do believe UFC vs SF HW they could win some fights of course. Even lesnar could beat a couple guys if he didn't get punched out first. Nog, Cro Cop, etc should not be around anymore though, and nobody need mention them.
The Grand Prix though for SF...Even if some of them aren't perfect, they are good/ decent in there own way. I'm not so sure you could take 8 UFC HWs for a tournament though and say the same thing. UFC either has shot fighters that they keep making $ off, or just straight new breed. Nobody really proven, and established that continues to consistently fight well.
If Nog and Cro Cop are shot then what the **** is Arlovski? And perhaps if Cro Cop and Nog had stayed out of the UFC they would today have the same inflated reputation as Barnett (after all both were superior to him in all three's peak years). And if we take it from the start of the tournament then Silva and Sergei were totally unproven at the highest level - Silva biggest fights had seen him lose to Werdum and struggle against Arloveski while the last time Sergei fought an actual heavyweight was a 2009 defeat to Jeff Monson. Overeem and Werdum are unproven - Overeem has all the tools to be a beast in MMA but he hasn't faced a ranked heavyweight yet while Werdum's game is overly one-dimensional. And FFS Rogers is coming off two defeats, one of which saw him come in overweight and unmotivated.

I just flat out don't see how anybody can claim that somehow the UFC division is inferior to the eight fighters in the grand prix tournament. I can see the argument that perhaps they're of equal worth although I personally don't buy it. That said the gap is far smaller than it is between the organisation's rosters in any other weight class.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:11 PM   #47
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

Damn...harsh treatment of Huerta, but he's spot on.
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:32 AM   #48
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

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only a damn fool would think he literally meant those guys..

are u that stupid or are u pretending?

This guy is saying that they're only famous because they fight in the biggest MMA org in the world, well no ****ing shit Eddie, but if just anybody could make it on the UFC don't you think they would? Wether he meant those guys or not, it's still a dumb statement.
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Old 04-08-2011, 12:31 PM   #49
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

UFC is like WWF, in more ways than can be counted almost it seems. White ~ McMahon, buying smaller organizations (not a bad thing btw), monopolizing the sport (in certain areas). This last point is relevant for this thread I believe.
Back in the 80's, the WWF was the go to professional wrestling organization, however, most knowledgeable fans were aware of the rival organizations, the NWA and the AWA. In every wrestling publication, the champions were always rated higher from the NWA and Verne Gagne's AWA than Vince's WWF. Ric Flair = Rick Martel > Hulk Hogan; Road Warriors = Von Ereich's > British Bulldogs or Dream Team Valentine and Beefcake, etc. However, the WWF was marketed way better than the other 2 organizations thus more people were aware of the WWF Superstars and they were way more famous. As a kid, I only read about Flair, and saw Martel occasionally being Canadian and all. But the wrestlers were far superior to the WWF wrestlers in athleticism and performance. It simply looked 'realler', more genuine, but the WWF guys were larger than life.
I believe this is the point the OP was making. However, being in North America, I believe this has a huge impact on my opinion. UFC is, I believe, a North American targetted organization. I very easily could be wrong as I honestly don't knowe much about MMA other than UFC (which is the same as when I was watching pro rassling in the 80's). Does this make sense to anyone lol?
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:04 PM   #50
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

They're are similarities but there is also a crucial difference - pro-wrestling is entertainment when the creativity of the promoter is in many ways the most important aspect of the show. One man controlling all of pro-wrestling is as much a drag as one studio controlling all of movie production - the lack of competition allows the producers to become complacent and write according to their own preferences instead of what different groups of fans want.

MMA is a sport and there's no evidence that there being a monopoly is a bad thing. Indeed the evidence is that rival leagues claiming to be the same thing is actually a bad thing in the longterm because it ups resource and turns the focus of everybody inward. But leaving that to one side the fact that its a sport does mean that Dana White does not have the freedom Vince McMahon has to control the product he has. Whereas McMahon can reject the best pro-wrestlers in the world because their small and don't speak English, White has to put challengers into title matches that are uncharismatic because they've won enough matches to deserve their chance. And because the UFC's brand (and Dana White's ego) relies on being seen as the elite level of the sport they need to sign fighters that look good outside its confines. Its like you said in the 80s and 90s there were pro-wrestling magazines ranking the different wrestlers across the organsiations. Today MSM sports publications are doing the same and it bugs the hell out of White when they reference non-UFC fighters with his reaction being to do his best to sign them up.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:18 PM   #51
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

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They're are similarities but there is also a crucial difference - pro-wrestling is entertainment when the creativity of the promoter is in many ways the most important aspect of the show. One man controlling all of pro-wrestling is as much a drag as one studio controlling all of movie production - the lack of competition allows the producers to become complacent and write according to their own preferences instead of what different groups of fans want.

MMA is a sport and there's no evidence that there being a monopoly is a bad thing. Indeed the evidence is that rival leagues claiming to be the same thing is actually a bad thing in the longterm because it ups resource and turns the focus of everybody inward. But leaving that to one side the fact that its a sport does mean that Dana White does not have the freedom Vince McMahon has to control the product he has. Whereas McMahon can reject the best pro-wrestlers in the world because their small and don't speak English, White has to put challengers into title matches that are uncharismatic because they've won enough matches to deserve their chance. And because the UFC's brand (and Dana White's ego) relies on being seen as the elite level of the sport they need to sign fighters that look good outside its confines. Its like you said in the 80s and 90s there were pro-wrestling magazines ranking the different wrestlers across the organsiations. Today MSM sports publications are doing the same and it bugs the hell out of White when they reference non-UFC fighters with his reaction being to do his best to sign them up.
I agree with you completely about the fact that MMA is 'real' and pro wreslting is 'fake' (not gonna even get into the arguments about the athleticism of the wreslters, etc.), but don't you feel that UFC has a very distinct WWF feel to it when compared to say boxing (and maybe even other mma organizations)? The in ring interviews with the crowd is a big thing for me, and the call outs for other fighters, and the challenges. The charisma of most of the UFC fighters is leaps and bounds beyond those in boxing (ok, yes, I'm a boxing fan, but I really do enjoy watching UFC), and I wonder how much of an influence Dana White has behind the scenes in choreographing the UFC fighter's character beyond the actual fighting.
Just out of curiosity, has any UFC fighter called out a non-UFC fighter after a fight in the Octagon, or praised a non-UFC fighter in an interview, either in or out of the ring? I'm sure they have, but I wouldn't be surprised if that has never happened, or if it has, dya think White might secretly fine the UFC fighter for promoting another organization?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that MMA and UFC is a lot like 80's wreslting, whereas other sports not so much. You regularly hear CFL players talking about the NFL and vice versa. Hell, when players don't make NFL, they are welcome to play for CFL, and usually even have a stipulation in their CFL contract that they can leave if they are offered an NFL contract. On NHL broadcasts, you hear mention of all the European Leagues, Soccer MSL they talk about European Football, and the list goes on and on for most professional sports. Even in boxing, you can have a WBA title match, and they will talk about other organizations. David Haye is fighting Wlad. Dya think you's ever see The Strikeforce or whatever champion fighting the UFC champion in a UNIFICATION match?
I think that may very well be the crux of my point. White seems to protect his fighters from other fighter's in other organizations to keep up the illusion (?) that his fighters are the best in the world, much like Vince did in the 80's. Please don't think I'm saying that the two organizations (UFC and WWF) are comparable on an actual fight talent level. Just the marketing and presentation to the media and audience. Does White normally even acknowledge that there are other champions other than his?
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:28 PM   #52
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

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I agree with you completely about the fact that MMA is 'real' and pro wreslting is 'fake' (not gonna even get into the arguments about the athleticism of the wreslters, etc.), but don't you feel that UFC has a very distinct WWF feel to it when compared to say boxing (and maybe even other mma organizations)? The in ring interviews with the crowd is a big thing for me, and the call outs for other fighters, and the challenges. The charisma of most of the UFC fighters is leaps and bounds beyond those in boxing (ok, yes, I'm a boxing fan, but I really do enjoy watching UFC), and I wonder how much of an influence Dana White has behind the scenes in choreographing the UFC fighter's character beyond the actual fighting.
Just out of curiosity, has any UFC fighter called out a non-UFC fighter after a fight in the Octagon, or praised a non-UFC fighter in an interview, either in or out of the ring? I'm sure they have, but I wouldn't be surprised if that has never happened, or if it has, dya think White might secretly fine the UFC fighter for promoting another organization?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that MMA and UFC is a lot like 80's wreslting, whereas other sports not so much. You regularly hear CFL players talking about the NFL and vice versa. Hell, when players don't make NFL, they are welcome to play for CFL, and usually even have a stipulation in their CFL contract that they can leave if they are offered an NFL contract. On NHL broadcasts, you hear mention of all the European Leagues, Soccer MSL they talk about European Football, and the list goes on and on for most professional sports. Even in boxing, you can have a WBA title match, and they will talk about other organizations. David Haye is fighting Wlad. Dya think you's ever see The Strikeforce or whatever champion fighting the UFC champion in a UNIFICATION match?
I think that may very well be the crux of my point. White seems to protect his fighters from other fighter's in other organizations to keep up the illusion (?) that his fighters are the best in the world, much like Vince did in the 80's. Please don't think I'm saying that the two organizations (UFC and WWF) are comparable on an actual fight talent level. Just the marketing and presentation to the media and audience. Does White normally even acknowledge that there are other champions other than his?
Unification matches are a symptom of a problem not a solution. Boxing is ****ed because it has too many belts - in the Golden Age of the sport unifications were rare because disputes about the lineage of the belt were rare. The UFC system of having one dominant promotion with titles that are recognised by most as world titles is MUCH better and will become more so when the UFC/Strikeforce belts are unified.

And again White doesn't protect his marketable fighters, he strives to sign the best talent out there to put in the cage against them. Name one top performing fighter that White hasn't tried to sign at some point. See how many fighters you can name that are better than the UFC champion in that division - I bet all but the most deluded UFC hater would struggle to honetsly say that in more than a handful of examples the UFC champion isn't the best.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

And never get this argument that the UFC has a particular WWE feel. Yes the structure of the organisation and the focus on getting over the organisation's brand is very similar but other than that the similarities in terms of presentation are just the similarities that should exist between combat sports and something that is trying to pretend to be a combat sport. I mean I really don't understand how people can claim that the UFC is particularly pro-wrestling when both Ali and Tyson cited pro-wrestlers as inspirations for their personas and Pride was far more theatrical and closely aligned with pro-wrestlers (such as Inoki).
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:37 PM   #54
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Default Re: Eddie Alvarez: "They're Only Important Names Because They Fight In The UFC"

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Unification matches are a symptom of a problem not a solution. Boxing is ****ed because it has too many belts - in the Golden Age of the sport unifications were rare because disputes about the lineage of the belt were rare. The UFC system of having one dominant promotion with titles that are recognised by most as world titles is MUCH better and will become more so when the UFC/Strikeforce belts are unified.

And again White doesn't protect his marketable fighters, he strives to sign the best talent out there to put in the cage against them. Name one top performing fighter that White hasn't tried to sign at some point. See how many fighters you can name that are better than the UFC champion in that division - I bet all but the most deluded UFC hater would struggle to honetsly say that in more than a handful of examples the UFC champion isn't the best.
lol, I can't name any. that's why im asking opinions. I'm not that educated on the 'new' mma (i used to watch way back when howard was a force, and taktarov, ruas, polar bear, etc., before weight classes and time limits and rounds, and RULES lol). But you're saying they are preparing for a unification fight between UFC and Strikeforce? That's good then. MMA seems to suffer right now from you said was killing boxing, too many champions. The best thing for either sport is to have ONE champion across the board for each weight class, like they try and do in boxing when KING isnt involved (could we go as far to say White is like the genetically mutated step child of McMahon and King?). Klit / Haye is GOOD for the sport of boxing and heavyweight boxing in particular. Maybe Cain could fight the Strikeforce champion (not sure who that is cuz I only hear about UFC unless i dig through these columns, kinda like the WWF and Hulk Hogan...Flair? who the hell is that? Some midwest cherry farmer?) If they fought, we would have ONE recognizeable champ.
However, you don't see other sports traditionally doing the unification thing, probably because there are general consensus's as to which organization is the best, except maybe the big club championship for soccer in Europe.
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