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Old 04-14-2011, 04:21 PM   #16
joe the great
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Default Re: sven ottke

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Originally Posted by Mr Butt View Post
if ottke had been fighting today how would he of done in the super-six

personally i think he would of lost to keesler,abraham,ward,taylor,froch and johnson.

saying that i dont think he would of had the nuts to enter it in the first place
He would've probably knocked out all six. He had mad power.

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Old 04-14-2011, 04:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: sven ottke

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Brewer the second time shouldnīt be a split decision, neither should be Mitchell. Add Larsen and Branco who were quite good fighters. He fought everyone the division had to offer but Calzaghe and his stablemate Beyer. He unified, defended the IB title 20+ times. How many fighters can say something like that from them? Yeah, he is no atg but he isnīt mediocre either.

this is where i think you and serenta are a little biased depth of quality of oposition for champions should not be quite good brewer and mitchell were quite good no better than that. larsen and branco were a slight level lower but to be honest he and calzaghe both should of fought each other . it would of been interesting seeing ottke take on lacy
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:01 AM   #18
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Default Re: sven ottke

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this is where i think you and serenta are a little biased depth of quality of oposition for champions should not be quite good brewer and mitchell were quite good no better than that. larsen and branco were a slight level lower but to be honest he and calzaghe both should of fought each other . it would of been interesting seeing ottke take on lacy
Say what you want about Ottke, the Reid fight was a disgrace, we get that and we all agree. However, Ottke was one hell of a smart boxer and very tough to beat if you were a power puncher. He had tremendous movement and a masterful ability to judge distance. Hate his style all you want, but the first Brewer fight was not a robbery, it was very close, the second Brewer fight was a clear Ottke win, and he clearly beat Mitchell, Thomas Tate, etc. I have not seen the Johnson fight, so can't comment.

Ottke needed you to be of a certain style to win and he knew that. Calzaghe was a swarmer and would have been able to walk to Sven. That would have gone badly. Among the current crop, I would give him a fair chance against Abraham and Kessler, I really think his movement would trouble and frustrate both. Froch would be a really good fight, I'd make that about 60/40 Froch. Dirrel and Ward are likely bad matchups for Ottke because of speed.

The people that just bash him as a protected bum have never seen him or at least never watched his better fights objectively.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: sven ottke

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Brewer the second time shouldnīt be a split decision, neither should be Mitchell. Add Larsen and Branco who were quite good fighters. He fought everyone the division had to offer but Calzaghe and his stablemate Beyer. He unified, defended the IB title 20+ times. How many fighters can say something like that from them? Yeah, he is no atg but he isnīt mediocre either.
Well, whatever you want to call him, he lost to Robin Reid. One round, Reid was winning, Reid hit Ottke down, should have been 8-10, RT ruled it a slip, then took a point off Reid, probably 10-8. Basically the rounds which Reid clearly won he lost on the cards, when the fight was in the bag for Ottke, Reid started to win the rounds that he was actually losing. It's pretty obvious what was happening in this fight. If Reid would have KO'ed Ottke he would have been disqualified for an illegal punch, he couldn't win on points. Some of the other decisions were a bit ropey too.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: sven ottke

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this is where i think you and serenta are a little biased depth of quality of oposition for champions should not be quite good brewer and mitchell were quite good no better than that. larsen and branco were a slight level lower but to be honest he and calzaghe both should of fought each other . it would of been interesting seeing ottke take on lacy
How that biased? I donīt like that guy. I watched his fights because I wanted to see him getting knocked out. So, if anything Iīm biased against him. But fact is that his and Calzagheīs reigns were very similar and up to the Lacy fight Ottke probably had a better one. He fought everything the division had to offer but Calzaghe and Beyer who was his stablemate. You can fault him for not having faced Calzaghe but Calzaghe was equally at fault. Calzaghe would have beaten him since he has a tremendous style advantage but it would have been a tough night for Joe. Lavy would have been a typical Ottke fight. Lacy was a puncher, Ottke feasted on them.


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Say what you want about Ottke, the Reid fight was a disgrace, we get that and we all agree. However, Ottke was one hell of a smart boxer and very tough to beat if you were a power puncher. He had tremendous movement and a masterful ability to judge distance. Hate his style all you want, but the first Brewer fight was not a robbery, it was very close, the second Brewer fight was a clear Ottke win, and he clearly beat Mitchell, Thomas Tate, etc. I have not seen the Johnson fight, so can't comment.

Ottke needed you to be of a certain style to win and he knew that. Calzaghe was a swarmer and would have been able to walk to Sven. That would have gone badly. Among the current crop, I would give him a fair chance against Abraham and Kessler, I really think his movement would trouble and frustrate both. Froch would be a really good fight, I'd make that about 60/40 Froch. Dirrel and Ward are likely bad matchups for Ottke because of speed.

The people that just bash him as a protected bum have never seen him or at least never watched his better fights objectively.
Thank you.



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Well, whatever you want to call him, he lost to Robin Reid. One round, Reid was winning, Reid hit Ottke down, should have been 8-10, RT ruled it a slip, then took a point off Reid, probably 10-8. Basically the rounds which Reid clearly won he lost on the cards, when the fight was in the bag for Ottke, Reid started to win the rounds that he was actually losing. It's pretty obvious what was happening in this fight. If Reid would have KO'ed Ottke he would have been disqualified for an illegal punch, he couldn't win on points. Some of the other decisions were a bit ropey too.
Everybody knows that, everbody agrees that this fight was a disgrace. So, whatīs your point? That because of one fight his whole career was rubbish? If so: fail.

Which decisions? Name them?
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: sven ottke

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There is this myth about Ottke that ever win against a good opponent was a robbery. The Reid fight was terrible, yes, but no more terrible than the "draw" in Lewis - Holyfield.

Ottke was boring but he was fast and had a difficult style to deal with. He would be competitive in the super six, he clearly beat Johnson (I was rooting for Johnson to win that fight,, I liked him a lot better than Ottke) and some other good fighters.
So naming two of the worst decisions in recent memory makes it better? Why not throw in Toney-Tiberi while you're at it?

About three of his better wins were all controversial, and Reid was flat out highway robbery. Not to say he didn't have good wins - he did have a number of good wins, but the scoring for him was generally wider than it should have been, from what I've seen.

I'd favor him to beat anyone other than Ward though. Kessler of 3 or 4 years ago I would have favored to beat prime Ottke, and Froch might give him trouble just due to style and awkwardness.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: sven ottke

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So naming two of the worst decisions in recent memory makes it better? Why not throw in Toney-Tiberi while you're at it?

About three of his better wins were all controversial, and Reid was flat out highway robbery. Not to say he didn't have good wins - he did have a number of good wins, but the scoring for him was generally wider than it should have been, from what I've seen.

I'd favor him to beat anyone other than Ward though. Kessler of 3 or 4 years ago I would have favored to beat prime Ottke, and Froch might give him trouble just due to style and awkwardness.
Outside of Germany he would have lost more than he won at World level and he would have been stopped.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:29 PM   #23
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Outside of Germany he would have lost more than he won at World level and he would have been stopped.
Uh, he wasn't stopped in Germany, what difference does ko power have in another country? You couldn't find Ottke to hit him, therefore he didn't get knocked out. That's not dependent on geography.

Secondly, the decisions of most Ottke fights were not that controversial if you actually know how to score boxing. Reid fight excepted.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: sven ottke

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Outside of Germany he would have lost more than he won at World level and he would have been stopped.
Which ones? Name them.
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Old 04-15-2011, 03:40 PM   #25
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Uh, he wasn't stopped in Germany, what difference does ko power have in another country? You couldn't find Ottke to hit him, therefore he didn't get knocked out. That's not dependent on geography.

Secondly, the decisions of most Ottke fights were not that controversial if you actually know how to score boxing. Reid fight excepted.
Basically, you cannot beat someone when you get warned for hitting them, when you hit them down it's ruled as a slip and when any error you get points deducted. Look, watch the first four rounds against Reid, if Reid doesn't win 3/4 of them clearly then there is something wrong. People like Starie, Reid etc and probably Brewer, Johnson etc would have battered Ottke if there was no Ref preventing them from what outside of an Ottke fight is a normal attack. Ottke only had to survive the 12 rounds and he won, he was good at that, but in a neutral country he would not have done it.
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: sven ottke

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the brewer fights and to a lesser degree the mitchell fight were suspect decisions to point and must be viewed as such but ottke was not the only boxer in history to get gifts from the judges

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Old 04-16-2011, 03:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: sven ottke

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Originally Posted by Mr Butt View Post
if ottke had been fighting today how would he of done in the super-six

personally i think he would of lost to keesler,abraham,ward,taylor,froch and johnson.

saying that i dont think he would of had the nuts to enter it in the first place
Ottke is vastly underrated these days and particularly at this brit dominated forum for obvious reasons, cos hes taking limelight from their beloved Calzaghe. As boring as he was as a fighter he was virtually untouchable in his prime with brilliant reflexes, high workrate and fast moves. I never liked watching him though, he was the great evader so to speak, abrams wouldnt have been able to lay a glove on him, speaking prime ottke now.
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Old 04-16-2011, 04:43 AM   #28
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Ottke is vastly underrated these days and particularly at this brit dominated forum for obvious reasons, cos hes taking limelight from their beloved Calzaghe. As boring as he was as a fighter he was virtually untouchable in his prime with brilliant reflexes, high workrate and fast moves. I never liked watching him though, he was the great evader so to speak, abrams wouldnt have been able to lay a glove on him, speaking prime ottke now.
He had a prime did he? Outside of Germany he's classed as a joke, protected, with no power. A runner who got gift decisions, he was not prepared to stand and fight. Calazghe and almost most of the top 10 would have beaten him outside of Germany at a neutral venue. In the UK you have the odd upset when someone comes from outside and wins, the Brits then end up supporting them, however, UK fighters won't really want to go over to Germany and Italy in particular because they know you sometimes need more than a KO to win. What would have happened if Frenkel would have been warned everytime he hit Enzo Mac??? (example)
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Old 04-16-2011, 05:29 AM   #29
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[quote=Brickhaus;9400003]So naming two of the worst decisions in recent memory makes it better? quote]

exactly and holyfield rematched lewis where was Reid's rematch?
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:56 AM   #30
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Default Re: sven ottke

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He had a prime did he? Outside of Germany he's classed as a joke, protected, with no power. A runner who got gift decisions, he was not prepared to stand and fight. Calazghe and almost most of the top 10 would have beaten him outside of Germany at a neutral venue. In the UK you have the odd upset when someone comes from outside and wins, the Brits then end up supporting them, however, UK fighters won't really want to go over to Germany and Italy in particular because they know you sometimes need more than a KO to win. What would have happened if Frenkel would have been warned everytime he hit Enzo Mac??? (example)

We ll have to agree to disagree here, mate

Last edited by Flurry; 04-16-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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