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Old 04-18-2011, 07:28 AM   #31
Will Cooling
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat View Post
I love how the UFC can talk about Herschel Walker and Bobby Lashley but turn a blind eye to Brock Lesnar, Mark Coleman and Royce Gracie.

Royce Gracie did well early on with his jits but the game has evolved ALOT and I'm not sure if he has kept up with it or stayed stuck in what he does. His fight with Hughes could suggest he didn't evolve or he just isn't good enough with the talent now on offer.

Royce could be emabarrassed and if he isn't matched right he'll be embarrassed worse then Renzo was.
Royce Gracie is a freak show fight but its a special occassion so I'd give them a pass although understand if people are less forgiving.

No idea what you're talking about with Lesnar and Coleman. Lesnar had been training MMA for two years before his UFC debut and was matched up hard from his first match. Coleman was an elder statesman of the sport that likewise was put up against real opponents. A far cry from Strikeforce finding warm bodies to feed to Walker.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:57 PM   #32
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

Jon Jones or Anderson Silva
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Old 04-18-2011, 01:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

Royce vs Wanderlai Silva would be interesting.
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Old 04-18-2011, 02:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

royce vs sakruaba III
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

Didn't Dana always say that the UFC wouldn't put on freak show fights THEN

Kimbo Slice enters the octogan NOW

An ancient/old/nowhere near good enough fighter in 2011 Royce Gracie enters the octogan.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:28 AM   #36
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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Royce Gracie is a freak show fight but its a special occassion so I'd give them a pass although understand if people are less forgiving.

No idea what you're talking about with Lesnar and Coleman. Lesnar had been training MMA for two years before his UFC debut and was matched up hard from his first match. Coleman was an elder statesman of the sport that likewise was put up against real opponents. A far cry from Strikeforce finding warm bodies to feed to Walker.
Brock Lesnar had 1 fight.

Coleman was main event and then got cut.

Lashley was a wrestler and Walker was an elite athlete who is a black belt in TKD.

Its hypocritical.

Personally, I don't mind Royce in an exhibition bout or if he is matched at his level. Someone old who wants to still fight. Royce vs Ken?!?!?!
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:55 AM   #37
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat View Post
Brock Lesnar had 1 fight.

Coleman was main event and then got cut.

Lashley was a wrestler and Walker was an elite athlete who is a black belt in TKD.

Its hypocritical.

Personally, I don't mind Royce in an exhibition bout or if he is matched at his level. Someone old who wants to still fight. Royce vs Ken?!?!?!
ken couldnt make middleweight
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:48 AM   #38
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat View Post
Brock Lesnar had 1 fight.

Coleman was main event and then got cut.

Lashley was a wrestler and Walker was an elite athlete who is a black belt in TKD.

Its hypocritical.

Personally, I don't mind Royce in an exhibition bout or if he is matched at his level. Someone old who wants to still fight. Royce vs Ken?!?!?!
No its not.

Again Coleman and Lesnar were matched up hard in the UFC. White didn't feed either man a bunch of gimmie opponents so that they could keep winning. To be on in the UFC they had to fight genuine opponents. In comparison, Walker's bouts have all been heavily hyped featured bouts on Showtime but his opponents have been abysmal. Nagy had a 1-2 record and Carson hadn't fough since 2001 when they first scheduled his match against Walker. That's what makes Walker's fights freakshow bouts - the quality of his opposition gives away the fact that he's not someone who's able or even seriously considering transitioning to MMA full time.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:15 AM   #39
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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No its not.

Again Coleman and Lesnar were matched up hard in the UFC. White didn't feed either man a bunch of gimmie opponents so that they could keep winning. To be on in the UFC they had to fight genuine opponents. In comparison, Walker's bouts have all been heavily hyped featured bouts on Showtime but his opponents have been abysmal. Nagy had a 1-2 record and Carson hadn't fough since 2001 when they first scheduled his match against Walker. That's what makes Walker's fights freakshow bouts - the quality of his opposition gives away the fact that he's not someone who's able or even seriously considering transitioning to MMA full time.
Lashley and Walker are having growing fights like a new fighter could. Being matched hard doesn't take away from teh fact that they weren't elite fighters and that is what the UFC is supposed to specialise in.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:16 AM   #40
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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ken couldnt make middleweight
Openweight
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:26 AM   #41
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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Lashley and Walker are having growing fights like a new fighter could. Being matched hard doesn't take away from teh fact that they weren't elite fighters and that is what the UFC is supposed to specialise in.
No. They're not. They've been put in featured matches on Strikeforce cards and in the case of Walker clearly positioned as the 'real' main event or co-main event.

And Lesnar proved he was elite competition by the way he manhandled Mir and then defeated Herring, Mir, Couture and Carwin. The whole point White made was that if you come to the UFC you have to face the best and they'd be no hiding from real competition. And the Coleman stuff is revisionist history - Coleman came out of retirement and put in a good losing effort to Shogun, defeated Bonnar (in a prelim bout mind you) and then lost meekly to Couture. When it became clear that he wasn't performing to the necessary standard they cut him - so proving that they were about featuring top draw talent.

The UFC employs 250 fighters - they can't all be the best in the world, there's obviously going to be a range in quality. What seperates them from how the likes of EliteXC and Strikeforce operated is that they don't hide their superstars. Kimbo came to the UFC he was put in TUF and positioned as the rookie he was. Lesnar came in and was put in tough matches. Etc, Etc
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:34 AM   #42
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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Royce vs Wanderlai Silva would be interesting.
yea bro that would be sick.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:14 AM   #43
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

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No. They're not. They've been put in featured matches on Strikeforce cards and in the case of Walker clearly positioned as the 'real' main event or co-main event.

And Lesnar proved he was elite competition by the way he manhandled Mir and then defeated Herring, Mir, Couture and Carwin. The whole point White made was that if you come to the UFC you have to face the best and they'd be no hiding from real competition. And the Coleman stuff is revisionist history - Coleman came out of retirement and put in a good losing effort to Shogun, defeated Bonnar (in a prelim bout mind you) and then lost meekly to Couture. When it became clear that he wasn't performing to the necessary standard they cut him - so proving that they were about featuring top draw talent.

The UFC employs 250 fighters - they can't all be the best in the world, there's obviously going to be a range in quality. What seperates them from how the likes of EliteXC and Strikeforce operated is that they don't hide their superstars. Kimbo came to the UFC he was put in TUF and positioned as the rookie he was. Lesnar came in and was put in tough matches. Etc, Etc
Lesnar was given an opportunity based on being a name not an elite fighter and he lost to Mir but one win against Herring and he gets the title shot not Mir. Brock vs Mir was co main event. Even after that loss he was co-main event first Herring.

Coleman got an opportunity based on what, being old and inactive.

I don't mind their inclusion in the roster but don't complain about Walker who is an old elite athlete who is a black belt in TKD and Lashley who is also a pro wrestler with amateur credentials.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:19 AM   #44
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

I think everyone knew Colemans time was up so he was well matched with Randy as opposed to a younger fighter (take your pick) and the Bonner win meant he had a nice bumper main event pay day for his retirement fund.

Totally different to feeding Walker non entities
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:39 AM   #45
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Default Re: Who should Royce Gracie fight in his UFC comeback ??

Cung Le
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