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View Poll Results: Can he become the GOAT?
Yes 35 71.43%
No 14 28.57%
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:18 PM   #136
Will Cooling
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Default Re: Can Anderson Silva surpass fedor as the greatest ever?

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Cool. The best Dan Henderson EVER was the guy who went to an SD with Rich Franklin in a light-heavyweight fight at aged 38.

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Back up their bucko.

I never said that. I said he was at or near as dammit at his best when he fought Silva, which was almost three years earlier when he was aged 35. I then said in response to you that I think Henderson vs. Franklin would have been an even match. I mean the only reason to think not is that Franklin couldn't take Henderson's but there's no evidence that had diminished when the two fought and Franklin handled it fine.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:34 PM   #137
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Back up their bucko.

I never said that. I said he was at or near as dammit at his best when he fought Silva, which was almost three years earlier when he was aged 35. I then said in response to you that I think Henderson vs. Franklin would have been an even match. I mean the only reason to think not is that Franklin couldn't take Henderson's but there's no evidence that had diminished when the two fought and Franklin handled it fine.
There was 10 months between Silva-Henderson and Henderson-Franklin not 3 years, and Hendo was 37-and-a-half when he fought Silva.

I'll never understand why people start trying to refute the points of others on here without knowing their shit first.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:43 PM   #138
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There was 10 months between Silva-Henderson and Henderson-Franklin not 3 years, and Hendo was 37-and-a-half when he fought Silva.

I'll never understand why people start trying to refute the points of others on here without knowing their shit first.
Actually we're both wrong

Silva vs Henderson was March 2008 and Franklin-Henderson was January 2010, which was a gap of eighteen months. But again I just don't buy he was out of his prime - he won his welterweight title on December 31st 2005 and in his last Pride fight won the middleweight title in 2007. I just think its typical that Pride nuthuggers always try to discount their heroes defeats in the Octagon because they happened when the fighter was no longer in their prime.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:50 PM   #139
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Actually we're both wrong

Silva vs Henderson was March 2008 and Franklin-Henderson was January 2010, which was a gap of eighteen months. But again I just don't buy he was out of his prime - he won his welterweight title on December 31st 2005 and in his last Pride fight won the middleweight title in 2007. I just think its typical that Pride nuthuggers always try to discount their heroes defeats in the Octagon because they happened when the fighter was no longer in their prime.


Nah, actually just you are wrong, and I'm still right.

Henderson-Franklin was in January 2009, like I said.

10 months after Silva-Henderson, which was in March 2008, like I said.


Actually check your facts before you respond this time...
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:51 PM   #140
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Nah, actually just you are wrong, and I'm still right.

Henderson-Franklin was in January 2009, like I said.

10 months after Silva-Henderson, which was in March 2008, like I said.


Actually check your facts before you respond this time...
Lol okay you got me...misremembered. But the point still stands - how does he go from his greatest victory against Wanderlei Silva to being past his best in his next two fights?
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:16 PM   #141
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Lol okay you got me...misremembered. But the point still stands - how does he go from his greatest victory against Wanderlei Silva to being past his best in his next two fights?

Exactly dan henderson like randy couture comes twice in a lifetime Age doesn't matter with these 2 cuz they are always in good shape and both are world class wrestler.

Couture was still going strong after 40. Henderson is still going strong and won a title at 40 so @ 37 he was still pretty much in his prime
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:45 PM   #142
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Exactly dan henderson like randy couture comes twice in a lifetime Age doesn't matter with these 2 cuz they are always in good shape and both are world class wrestler.

Couture was still going strong after 40. Henderson is still going strong and won a title at 40 so @ 37 he was still pretty much in his prime
Except age obviously does matter because the 40 year old Randy Couture who knocked out Chuck Liddell and dominated Tito Ortiz was much better than the 46 year old Randy Couture who lost to a shot Nog and got a gift decision against Brandon ****ing Vera, much like the Pride Hendo was a better all-round fighter than the version which went life and death with Rich Franklin, lost to Rampage, and later lost to Jake Shields. Age always matters.
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:49 PM   #143
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Lol okay you got me...misremembered. But the point still stands - how does he go from his greatest victory against Wanderlei Silva to being past his best in his next two fights?
If you'd seen most of Wandy's career, you'd know he was there to be taken at the time. He was coming off being knocked out cold by Crocop, and he would look like an old man in getting beaten by Chuck in his next fight. Wanderlei vs Hendo was in the midst of a run where Wandy went 1-5, where the win was over Keith ****ing Jardine, and he got knocked out cold three times. That may have been a good win, it may also have been a massive win in terms of prestige, but it wasn't a landmark victory under the circumstances. Had he beaten Wandy 3 years earlier in '04, it would have been. Even in the MW Grand Prix in '05, Wanderlei looked a declined fighter, and that was 2 years before Hendo got to him.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:07 PM   #144
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Of course he was past his best. You think a prime Hendo goes life and death with Rich Franklin?! Sober up man.

Henderson was not shot, nowhere near it, but Silva did not beat the best version of Hendo there ever was. The best version of Hendo never fought in the UFC.
Wait wait what was the best "version" of Dan?
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:47 PM   #145
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Wait wait what was the best "version" of Dan?
Wait wait I'd say the best version of Dan Henderson was 2001-2006 in Pride, where the only men to beat him in 5 years were the bigger and absolute world-class Nogueira brothers, and the world-class Ricardo Arona. The Hendo who won the Pride WW GP in 2005. In those years, Henderson looked at his best.

By the time he fought in the UFC, he wasn't using his wrestling as much, was relying too much on his big right hand, and his stamina looked to have dissipated. He was (and is) still a top fighter, but his peak has been and gone.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:21 PM   #146
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Default Re: Can Anderson Silva surpass fedor as the greatest ever?

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Wait wait I'd say the best version of Dan Henderson was 2001-2006 in Pride, where the only men to beat him in 5 years were the bigger and absolute world-class Nogueira brothers, and the world-class Ricardo Arona. The Hendo who won the Pride WW GP in 2005. In those years, Henderson looked at his best.

By the time he fought in the UFC, he wasn't using his wrestling as much, was relying too much on his big right hand, and his stamina looked to have dissipated. He was (and is) still a top fighter, but his peak has been and gone.
Wow so much wrong with this.

Dan most definitely used his wrestling in the UFC. He took down Rampage, Silva, Franklin, and Palhares. In fact he took down every fighter he fought in the UFC outside of Bisping who he KTFO.

His stamina looks to have dissipated? Naw man Dan is a mouth breath, always has been. You'd be hard pressed to find a fight of his that went to decision where he wasn't weezing by the end.

In those years Dan looked his best? Are you gonna tell me Dan looked better in his fights with Misaki in 2006 than he did when he laid out Wandy or took Rampage to a close decision when Rampage was UFC champ in 07?

Do you think Dan looked better in 2004 squeeking by Yuki Kondo than he did when he was on a three fight win streak in the UFC and went toe to toe with the MW GOAT Anderson Silva in 08-9?

Stop with this peak years nonsense.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:09 PM   #147
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Wow so much wrong with this.

Dan most definitely used his wrestling in the UFC. He took down Rampage, Silva, Franklin, and Palhares. In fact he took down every fighter he fought in the UFC outside of Bisping who he KTFO.

His stamina looks to have dissipated? Naw man Dan is a mouth breath, always has been. You'd be hard pressed to find a fight of his that went to decision where he wasn't weezing by the end.

In those years Dan looked his best? Are you gonna tell me Dan looked better in his fights with Misaki in 2006 than he did when he laid out Wandy or took Rampage to a close decision when Rampage was UFC champ in 07?

Do you think Dan looked better in 2004 squeeking by Yuki Kondo than he did when he was on a three fight win streak in the UFC and went toe to toe with the MW GOAT Anderson Silva in 08-9?

Stop with this peak years nonsense.
Wow so much wrong with this.

Dan Henderson did become more reliant on his punches and less reliant on his wrestling in the UFC. Any Dan Henderson fan would concur with this. Hendo wisely used his wrestling in the 1st round against Silva, but a sustained grappling performance from him was rare in the Octagon.

Yes, he "took people down", but scoring a takedown in the midst of a stand-up fight is not the same as making a concerted effort to outwrestle and outgrapple someone. If a decorated wrestler scores one takedown in a fight, does that mean they are 'using their wrestling'? I don't think so. They are neglecting it, if anything.

Hendo, like every other mammal that has ever lived on the planet Earth, has suffered declining stamina with age. The younger Hendo would not have found it so tough going in the late rounds with the likes of Franklin and Shields.

I think Dan looked good against Wandy because every top fighter except Keith 'The Dean Of Shit' Jardine was looking good against Wandy at that stage. I think if Hendo fought Rampage a couple of years earlier in Pride, he'd have beaten him. Hendo's performance in that fight told me he was a declined force, Henderson was always a better all-round fighter than Quinton IMO.

You can pick out mediocre performances from anyone's career and use it in isolation to prove any point, like you have done with 1 or 2 of Hendo's performances. The fact is the guy won the Pride GP within that period, had some very dominant/impressive performances, and only lost to the very top guys.

Stop with this "peak years nonsense"?? Yeah OK man, there is no such thing as a fighter's peak then, all fighters are peak from the moment they turn pro to the moment of their final retirement. Solid theory
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:42 PM   #148
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So let me get this straight - Nogueira, Cro Cop, Henderson, Wanderlei, Henderson all left their peak years the minute Pride left and they had to go and fight the UFC fighters? **** its like they're a women's dorm whose menstrual cycles have all synced up.

And isn't it funny that the Pride fighters who peak years didn't end the second the organisation closed are the ones that stayed out of the UFC and avoided facing top competition. Complete coincidence.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:16 PM   #149
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So let me get this straight - Nogueira, Cro Cop, Henderson, Wanderlei, Henderson all left their peak years the minute Pride left and they had to go and fight the UFC fighters? **** its like they're a women's dorm whose menstrual cycles have all synced up.

And isn't it funny that the Pride fighters who peak years didn't end the second the organisation closed are the ones that stayed out of the UFC and avoided facing top competition. Complete coincidence.
What sort of guy hates Pride and loves the UFC? I've seen people get very attached to fighters, but not fight organizations. Why do you get all hot and bothered over this, did the entire Pride organization sleep with a female relative of yours or something?

Wanderlei was already on the decline by 2005, because he wasn't the same fighter in the MW GP. That was ****ing obvious to anyone with eyes. His toothless performance against Arona just wasn't the Wandy of earlier years.

Look at this way - in Pride, Wanderlei ****ing annihilated Rampage not once but twice. Then by the time they rematched in the UFC, Rampage knocked him cold. Had Rampage suddenly changed from the Rampage of old into Roy Jones? Nope. He was the same fighter he has always been and always will be, Wandy was just a more fragile, downtrodden fighter by then.

Hendo was getting old, his stamina was on the wane, and he started to become too reliant on power punching. He was still a top fighter in the UFC, just not quite as good as in younger days, like 99% of fighters.

IMO, Big Nog definitely wasn't the same fighter in the UFC that he was in his peak in Pride. Again, simply watching his fights is all the evidence you need of that. The wear and tear of fighting Fedor, Barnett, Crocop, Kharitonov, Werdum, Coleman, Sapp, etc, had clearly worn him down a bit by then. By the time he fought Mir he was shot.

The only one I would say who was still the same fighter by the time he hit the UFC was Crocop, but that one massive shocking kick from Gonzaga changed Crocop. It was such a devastating KO, both physically and mentally, that I don't think he's ever been the same. But I wouldn't argue that he was declined before that fight, because he'd looked absolutely superb in the HW GP less than a year before the Gonzaga fight.


Basically, all those guys spent years destroying each other in Pride, and almost all were older and more beaten up by the time they got to the UFC. The only guys who were as good in the UFC as they were in Pride were guys who were very young in Pride (Shogun) and guys who never seen much action in Pride (Anderson). The older mainstays weren't the same forces that they were years earlier, and as I've said, the evidence is on tape for you to check out.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:19 PM   #150
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