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Old 05-09-2011, 12:25 AM   #1
Hydraulix
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Default Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

I've always defended his chin against others. I can excuse him getting KO'd by Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. They were both knockout artists. And, in the Marciano fight, Walcott took quite a few bombs before Rocky feinted a left, then surprised him with a Suzy-Q in the 13th round. Honestly, I think the surprise of the punch is what got Walcott. If he'd seen it coming, he may have taken it better.

Anyway, those knockout losses aside, I always figured that Joe was like Michael Moorer--not a bad chin per se, but he had a habit of getting caught flush by dangerous sluggers. Reading Joe Louis' autobiography last night, I noticed that The Brown Bomber pointed out something interesting.

Quote:
One thing we had in common is that we both had fought Al Ettore and Abe Simon; only thing though, he had been knocked out by both of them.
Like I said earlier, getting KO'd by Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano is one thing. They're both Class A sluggers. But I hadn't realized that Walcott had been KO'd by inferior opponents. How would you rate Walcott's chin?

Last edited by Hydraulix; 05-09-2011 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 05-09-2011, 12:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

7/10. He fought some dangerous mother****ers. I bet Louis would've gotten hurt by guys like Tiger Jack Fox too.
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Old 05-09-2011, 12:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Walcott fought and beat more punchers than any other heavyweight champion in history save Ali and Lennox. From 1944-1953, only Marciano and Louis were able to stop Walcott. Walcott had a good, not great chin. Most of his knockout losses suffered in the 1930s were due to exhaustion from poor condition than due to his lack of a chin.

Some monsterous punchers Walcott beat included: Joe Louis(1st fight), Hatchetman Sheppard 2x, Tommy Gomez, Lee Q Murray, Elmer Ray 2x, Lorenzo Pack, Hein Ten Hoff.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

it was also well known that jersey joe had to go into the tank in his early days
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Ettore was a fairly good fighter.
And Simon was bigger than a gorilla.

I don't think Walcott's chin was bad at all. His defense is overrated though. He had some great evasive moves but he often wasn't consistent enough with them.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Ettore was a fairly good fighter.
And Simon was bigger than a gorilla.

I don't think Walcott's chin was bad at all. His defense is overrated though. He had some great evasive moves but he often wasn't consistent enough with them.
U,true to the above. Joe Walcott had a decent chin as witnessed by me when I saw Walcott ko dangerous Tommy Gomez from Tampa Fl @ MSG. He took
some blasts from Gomez, but survived them and kod Gomez.But Walcott,though tricky and slick did occasionally get tagged and was hurt. Most every fighter gets kod,given enough fights. Even Ray Robinson in my eyes was once kod, by Artie Levine,when Robbie was on the canvass for about 17 seconds.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Walcott explained that when he was dethroned, he was in the process of attempting to knock Marciano out himself. Saying his plan was to unload a pair of jabs then crash over a right, he claimed the jar from the first jab gushed blood from a cut he earlier sustained into his left eye, blinding him to the tremendous short right which knocked him out. (I could not clearly discern which specific jab this might have been during the 30 seconds of action in round 13. He attempted a half dozen, but none seemed to connect solidly. Both he and Marciano confirmed Walcott was starting to throw his left again when Rocky unloaded the sleeper though.)

Joe had earlier stood up to some devastating shots, including the famous face distorting mid ring right photographed at 1:27 of round seven, as masterfully detected and documented by Dempsey1238 in the following thread from three years ago:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Obviously, Walcott had to have had a very respectable chin to stand up to that round seven hay maker. Marciano knocked him out with a punch he did not see.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydraulix View Post
Like I said earlier, getting KO'd by Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano is one thing. They're both Class A sluggers. But I hadn't realized that Walcott had been KO'd by inferior opponents. How would you rate Walcott's chin?
Starvation and lack of any proper training will do that to you. Those losses really shouldn't be counted against Walcott.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Mongoose View Post
Starvation and lack of any proper training will do that to you. Those losses really shouldn't be counted against Walcott.
I agree with you. And the Jack Dempsey "KO" at the hands of veteran Fireman Jim Flynn,was a "dive",when a young starving hobo was in desperate need of money. One year later under the guidance of Jack Kearns , Dempsey flattened Flynn in 1 round. These fights should me no barometer of the prime abilities of Walcott or Dempsey. Nada !
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
I agree with you. And the Jack Dempsey "KO" at the hands of veteran Fireman Jim Flynn,was a "dive",when a young starving hobo was in desperate need of money. One year later under the guidance of Jack Kearns , Dempsey flattened Flynn in 1 round. These fights should me no barometer of the prime abilities of Walcott or Dempsey. Nada !
Dempsey was "a starving hobo" in Feburary 1917?

Jack weighed 181lbs in July 1916 & 198lbs in Feburary 1918, yet he was somehow starving in 1917?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:22 PM   #11
The Mongoose
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Dempsey was "a starving hobo" in Feburary 1917?

Jack weighed 181lbs in July 1916 & 198lbs in Feburary 1918, yet he was somehow starving in 1917?
Clearly a play on words and Joe Walcott was 192 when he was knocked out by Abe Simon, Shoeman. Doesn't change the fact he was living in poverty as a dock worker without proper nutrition or professional training of any kind. Dempseys' weight for the first Flynn fight is also unknown so you are speculating based on a previous weight.

Also Weight is not a guage of their living conditions, the human body stores fat and extra weight when you are starving but still eating sporadically to get by(why starving diets don't work genius). You only see dramatic weight loss in concentration camp conditions or with people not eating anything due to pyschologial disorders; in other words people who are dying.

Last edited by The Mongoose; 05-09-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:30 PM   #12
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Dempsey was "a starving hobo" in Feburary 1917?

Jack weighed 181lbs in July 1916 & 198lbs in Feburary 1918, yet he was somehow starving in 1917?
Dempsey was starving in a sense that he was in dire need to feed himself and help his family in Colorado. I am not home now and have no access to
my info on Dempsey's weight in Feb, 1917, but he was NOWHERE near the
fighter he became under the guidance of Jack Kearns, for he flattened Jim Flynn,exactly one year later in Feb, 1918.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I don't think Walcott's chin was bad at all. His defense is overrated though. He had some great evasive moves but he often wasn't consistent enough with them.
He relied on them too much I'd say. His low hands and his reliance on beating his opponents to the punch meant he was walking a fine line, and when his timing and reflexes failed him for a moment against guys like Louis and Marciano it was curtains down.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:38 PM   #14
The Mongoose
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott's Chin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Dempsey was "a starving hobo" in Feburary 1917?

Jack weighed 181lbs in July 1916 & 198lbs in Feburary 1918, yet he was somehow starving in 1917?
Here's some reading material, shoeman. You really are my new hegrant.

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