John Ruiz Appreciation Thread

[ecto55]

...............

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Let's hear it for the Quiet Man!

Now that the dust has settled, we can truly appreciate the skills and fortitude he brought to the ring. Please list your best memories from his career along with acute analysis of his style and abilities. This is the first in a 47 part serial post on Ruiz as I plan on heading off Pollack at the pass by beginning my own study of the heavyweight champs with Ruiz and moving backward to the great NABF titleholder Alex Zolkin.

Thanks for your input!

I take my hat off to you Seamus for having the guts to start this thread.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by ecto55

Well, the rumour as I heard it in the gym from a well-connected boxing identity who just returned from a long-tenure in the States was that... some years earlier, he'd been staying in a hotel with Levi Billups. I forget the context of why, where or how, but John Ruiz came up inconversation at the hotel and it was related by Billups or Billups' people, that John Ruiz had been forced to take an extended period of time off because of a wholesome beating he'd taken at the hands of Joe Hipp. Apperently, Joe Hipp had been out of action himself for a long while and as often happens in such situations was offered some title shot- WBU or USBA etc., and despite being the 'opponent', won it.

John Ruiz's people then invited Hipp to do some closed sparring with Ruiz, the impression I got was that they either intended to determine Hipps condition for themselves as he often had injuries, or wanted to have Ruiz work Hipp over in the gym to make any fight later on between two easier for Ruiz (if that makes sense?). But they seemed to have designs on Hipp at least.
I was told their plan completly backfired, and Hipp despite driving hours to get the spar, responded to the heavy stuff in kind and completely demolished Ruiz. Bad news wasn't only that Ruiz caught almost everything that Hipp threw, but that Ruiz also managed to damage his right eye or the orbital bone somehow. This put paid to Ruiz's plans for some time, and Hipp lost his 'title' such as it was to someone else.
I'm sure there's a few versions of this out there with emphasis on different aspects, but this is the verison I was told, and it was a good story to hear although always better in person than read...

I will say this, having spent time in Joe Hipp's neck of the woods, and having heard plenty stories of him. He was not to be trifled with and would be about the last guy you would want to get into a real fight with. If it weren't for his tender skin and less than spartan training habits, he would have been more of a force in the 90's. Tough, tough dude.

[Zakman]

Originally Posted by round15

In the words of John McEnroe Seamus, YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS?
The disease that is John Ruiz? I rather talk about a Butterbean appreciation thread or a Jimmy Thunder from down under appreciation thread.

Everything about Ruiz was wrong for the sport IMO. Still, just my opinion.
Wait a minute, someone please tell me he's not coming out of retirement or making noise about challenging the Klitschko's? That's beyond madness! Ruiz is in the greatest place right now, "Never heard from him again Island." Too bad MMA couldn't pry him away.

If I can say one kind thing about Ruiz is the fact that he actually took up the sport, and any man brave enough to get in the squared circle and throw punches(despite Ruiz rarely doing so, more holding), earns my praise, so I'll give him that. Nothing else. Oh, he's the greatest whiner, complainer and purveyor of turning body shots from his opponent into low blows.

His acting is on par with soccer player dives.

Exactly. Ruiz was a disgrace to boxing. He held excessively in virtually every fight he had above the tomato can level, and blatantly faked low blows in others to get convenient point deductions and in one case (Johnson) to force a DQ. Ruiz is on a par with Luis Santana as one of the most undeserved cheaters to ever "win" a world title.

[Vince Voltage]

Seamus, I agree with you. I'm tired of the world picking on Ruiz. The guy was very game, and much better than given credit for. He arguably beat Valuev and Chagaev. He was in the upper echelons of the sport for about a decade. Sure, he had his problems, but the point is to win, and he usually did. I think it takes a lot of mental toughness too, to be so reviled and yet perservere in the way that he did. I was at MSG when Golota had him down twice, but Ruiz got up and attacked his way to a controversial victory. There are lots and lots of worse fighters out there.

[JAB5239]

A serious question about Ruiz is, how much better could he have been with a top notch trainer? As colorful as Norman Stone was, he was a cheerleader only who did his fighter no favors by helping him readjust between rounds. Could another trainer have gotten more from Ruiz' determined, but meager talent?

[round15]

Originally Posted by Squire

I like John Ruiz. He was like Rocky. Did very well with relatively limited natural ability at the top/Euro level. He beat a pretty good version of Holyfield, arguably deserved the win against SNV and has a few decent wins over top contenders.

He was lucky he never ended up in the ring with Lewis or the Klitschkos though

Ruiz like Rocky? That's borderline blasphemous if you ask me.

Even though it's the movies, I'd never put Rocky and Ruiz in the same sentence. Rocky never whined or complained to the ref. Rocky never faked low blows or excessively held his opponents. If you ask me, Ruiz did a whole lot more acting his entire fight career than Rocky did in his 8 fight movie career.

[round15]

Originally Posted by Vince Voltage

Seamus, I agree with you. I'm tired of the world picking on Ruiz. The guy was very game, and much better than given credit for. He arguably beat Valuev and Chagaev. He was in the upper echelons of the sport for about a decade. Sure, he had his problems, but the point is to win, and he usually did. I think it takes a lot of mental toughness too, to be so reviled and yet perservere in the way that he did. I was at MSG when Golota had him down twice, but Ruiz got up and attacked his way to a controversial victory. There are lots and lots of worse fighters out there.

Wow!

[klompton]

Ruiz was boxings cockroach. He should have never been allowed back into the sport after Holyfield beat him three times but only managed to get one win. He also lost to a shot Golota as well but got the nod there and lost to Toney but retained the title on a steroids NC.

[frankenfrank]

Originally Posted by cross_trainer

Point taken, but Johnson and Jeffries would have been big enough to manhandle him.

No , they won't . Not even Jeffries . Jeffries would have made the 190 so easily , he would have stayed there . If Holyfield and Kirk Johnson didn't manhadndle him , forget about Jack Johnson manhandling him.
If Jeffries lived in our era , he would have had better technique , better training , and better junk food and sugar flooded drinks. He would have looked like a white version of Jason Estrada

[klompton]

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

No , they won't . Not even Jeffries . Jeffries would have made the 190 so easily , he would have stayed there . If Holyfield and Kirk Johnson didn't manhadndle him , forget about Jack Johnson manhandling him.
If Jeffries lived in our era , he would have had better technique , better training , and better junk food and sugar flooded drinks. He would have looked like a white version of Jason Estrada

Ridiculous. Ruiz wasn't any better or stronger or more fit above 190 (where he lost to kobozev) when he moved up to hw. Do you think sergei was any better or stronger than jwffries? Or that sugar was only invented in 1990s for that matter? Did you ever see anyone outmuscle even an old johnson? I didn't. John ruiz, whose greatest asset was his ability to fall down clutching his nuts, never saw the day he would have beaten a great fighter.

[Steenalized]

Ruiz was boring as hell and robbed multiple opponents of victories thanks to his connections with Don King. No kudos for him.

[Duodenum]

Originally Posted by klompton

Ruiz was boxing's cockroach. He should have never been allowed back into the sport after Holyfield beat him three times but only managed to get one win. He also lost to a shot Golota as well but got the nod there and lost to Toney but retained the title on a steroids NC.

Yes, and that's something which shouldn't be overlooked. He somehow managed to lose his title in the ring decisively to two different aging former MW champions, steroids or not.

[frankenfrank]

Originally Posted by klompton

Ridiculous. Ruiz wasn't any better or stronger or more fit above 190 (where he lost to kobozev) when he moved up to hw. Do you think sergei was any better or stronger than jwffries? Or that sugar was only invented in 1990s for that matter? Did you ever see anyone outmuscle even an old johnson? I didn't. John ruiz, whose greatest asset was his ability to fall down clutching his nuts, never saw the day he would have beaten a great fighter.

Did you watch Ruiz-Kobozev ? this argument is about manhandling .
Was that how Kobozev "beat" him ?
Sugar was available in Johnson's time , but not the HFCS , super high carbohydrate junk foods , etc. Also not the same snacks.

[amhlilhaus]

Originally Posted by cross_trainer

That's actually a pretty close approximation of what his fights looked like.

lol! hey are you still going to do that book?

as for ruiz he did what he did to win, at the tail end of his career he opened back up trying to fight a more crowd pleasing style, but most american fans had written him off by then. losing a md and a sd in the notoriously corrupt and impossible to beat the hometown fighter germany is probably a win in both cases, and the ud to valuev was possibly a robbery as well.

but people just want to replay tua over and over again. I say the same about wlad with purrity, sanders, brewster.............