weight lifting...why such different views on it in boxing???????

[highguard]

this topic has always interested me?

i have boxed for many years and also grappled
this resulted in a few very bad injuries.....i did not lift weights then

about a year and a half ago i started to lift weights a lot
and my body's recovery and all over well being is WAY better....


interesting why it is a big question/former taboo in boxing....


most boxers in europe(poland to portugal) that i met or watched lift weights, to varied degrees and time spent.

in russia and fromer ussr...some boxers do and some dont...
but even in old time times there doing some types of lifting usually not heavy.


latina ameria, some boxers do and others dont, some coaches say its good others say its not.....some coaches will say you should only lift if your a bigger fighter like say over 147 or whatever....
that the little guys need more speed then more...
again an odd argument

in the usa, most lift but not all.

this is from knowlege

nacho beristain for a fact does not like his guys to lift weights but doesnt really go crazy if they do....a kind of its up to you attuide

uri wegner for example, thinks weight lifting is good for you and helps alot.

interesting enough
a lot of european-german boxers like abraham and strum etc
do seem stiff or more stiffer then latin's or americans
but then again they hardly ever get ko'd

[ame]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=xJqWSqXbzwE&feature=relmfu[/ame]



also odd is that whenever people mention weightlifting
people will say "ohh to many guys guys focus on that instead
of techique, i dont know what one has to do with the other lol



one good example i will bring up for weight lifting is that it can help prevent brain damage from boxing....

example, you make your neck-shoulders area stronger, this helps
absorb impact,

maybe this is one of the reasons many older fighters got brain damage

check george chuvalo talk

[ame]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7GgwOFpz7s[/ame]

[bballchump11]

Lifting weights is good for boxing, but only if you know what you're doing. Also lifting the wrong way can make you stiff and slow and lose flexibility. If you do everything properly, then this won't be and issue.

edit: Also lifting can interfere with skill work and technique if you do it too often and spend time lifting that could have been spend perfecting your moves. Lets say you lift hard 5 days out the week. Your muscles will be too won out to focus on hitting the bag and mitts. So I'd only lift maybe twice a week on the same muscle

[Bazooka]

The old timers would tell ya, that it makes you too stiff, example. When doing sets of curls, do you ever notice how your arms swell up and get tight?

Now when you add that to your training, then go in to fight, as soon as you start moving them hands and throwing shots, your arms tighten up like that, which often can leave you to not bringing your hand back up all the way cus that arm is sort of pumped, in addition with your arm swelling up like that, it does slow you down...

But some fighters manage lifting so I really dont know... what I can tell you is my experience, we were never to do curls and such, just squats and bench pressing everything else came from Floor work, dips sit ups etc...

[highguard]

Originally Posted by bballchump11

Lifting weights is good for boxing, but only if you know what you're doing. Also lifting the wrong way can make you stiff and slow and lose flexibility. If you do everything properly, then this won't be and issue.

edit: Also lifting can interfere with skill work and technique if you do it too often and spend time lifting that could have been spend perfecting your moves. Lets say you lift hard 5 days out the week. Your muscles will be too won out to focus on hitting the bag and mitts. So I'd only lift maybe twice a week on the same muscle

i agree with you 100 percent
time has to be managed well

[highguard]

Originally Posted by Bazooka

The old timers would tell ya, that it makes you too stiff, example. When doing sets of curls, do you ever notice how your arms swell up and get tight?

Now when you add that to your training, then go in to fight, as soon as you start moving them hands and throwing shots, your arms tighten up like that, which often can leave you to not bringing your hand back up all the way cus that arm is sort of pumped, in addition with your arm swelling up like that, it does slow you down...

But some fighters manage lifting so I really dont know... what I can tell you is my experience, we were never to do curls and such, just squats and bench pressing everything else came from Floor work, dips sit ups etc...

i know the argument well and here is a harsh argument against

ofcourse you dont box right after doing arms, this is not prove anything
in fact in weight lifting doing your arms is the least important thing there is....
most people who focus alot of arms are doing it more for looks


now speaking of these wise old timers,

these are the same guys whose big bad heavyweights look like small middleweights and have skinny ass legs and necks.....right???????


i love boxing history but sometimes just like you have to question the
wisdom of modern boxers,
you have question the old timers too



but back to the whole stiffness thing right after lifting weights
you do know that it takes like
24 hours for the latic acid go away fully right?

[Bazooka]

Originally Posted by highguard

i know the argument well and here is a harsh argument against

ofcourse you dont box right after doing arms, this is not prove anything
in fact in weight lifting doing your arms is the least important thing there is....
most people who focus alot of arms are doing it more for looks


now speaking of these wise old timers,

these are the same guys whose big bad heavyweights look like small middleweights and have skinny ass legs and necks.....right???????


i love boxing history but sometimes just like you have to question the
wisdom of modern boxers,
you have question the old timers too



but back to the whole stiffness thing right after lifting weights
you do know that it takes like
24 hours for the latic acid go away fully right?

Sure it does, but the stiffness wont go away in 24 hours, not when your working out 6 days a week, 3 lifting, and the other 3 sparring in addition to the work out routine....

[Bonkers]

Hypertrophy (building muscle)work like reps of 8-12 with short rest like <1 build muscle, that's why body builders do it that way. Arnold used to do 5 sets of 12 reps with 30 sec rest. This makes you huge and stiff like the old timers say. I agree, all the dudes I see like this are mad slow. Look at the MMA guys with amazing physiques, slow as shit.

One the other hand, you can do 1-5 reps of heavy weight, with long rests up to 5 mins, and that emphasizes neurological adaptations (neural drive), this type of work was suggested by Dr. Tudor Bumpa(invented periodization training for elite athletes) for boxers, and martial artists because of its relationship with explosive power.

That's what I have read and saw, me personally, I love body weight work and don't lift anymore. Lifting messes with my joints, and I feel much slower when I do it, and the body weight stuff doesn't do this. Also, all the all time fighters I really prefer to watch didn't lift and they were way more exciting and skilled, so whatever they did I try to emulate.

[highguard]

you have a good point
but the amount of lifting is another question

ofcourse if you lift all the time
and box your muscles wont have much

again the same can be said for RUNNING
try running all time time
and see how your legs feel, walking much less sparring

but sorry its taboo to question running....

another werid thing, people will talk about
how much weight lifting takes out of you
but never pose the same quesiton for
running

[Phanekim]

Originally Posted by Bonkers

Hypertrophy (building muscle)work like reps of 8-12 with short rest like <1 build muscle, that's why body builders do it that way. Arnold used to do 5 sets of 12 reps with 30 sec rest. This makes you huge and stiff like the old timers say. I agree, all the dudes I see like this are mad slow. Look at the MMA guys with amazing physiques, slow as shit.

One the other hand, you can do 1-5 reps of heavy weight, with long rests up to 5 mins, and that emphasizes neurological adaptations (neural drive), this type of work was suggested by Dr. Tudor Bumpa(invented periodization training for elite athletes) for boxers, and martial artists because of its relationship with explosive power.

That's what I have read and saw, me personally, I love body weight work and don't lift anymore. Lifting messes with my joints, and I feel much slower when I do it, and the body weight stuff doesn't do this. Also, all the all time fighters I really prefer to watch didn't lift and they were way more exciting and skilled, so whatever they did I try to emulate.

from my experience this sounds closest to being correct.

[highguard]

Originally Posted by Bonkers

Hypertrophy (building muscle)work like reps of 8-12 with short rest like <1 build muscle, that's why body builders do it that way. Arnold used to do 5 sets of 12 reps with 30 sec rest. This makes you huge and stiff like the old timers say. I agree, all the dudes I see like this are mad slow. Look at the MMA guys with amazing physiques, slow as shit.

One the other hand, you can do 1-5 reps of heavy weight, with long rests up to 5 mins, and that emphasizes neurological adaptations (neural drive), this type of work was suggested by Dr. Tudor Bumpa(invented periodization training for elite athletes) for boxers, and martial artists because of its relationship with explosive power.

That's what I have read and saw, me personally, I love body weight work and don't lift anymore. Lifting messes with my joints, and I feel much slower when I do it, and the body weight stuff doesn't do this. Also, all the all time fighters I really prefer to watch didn't lift and they were way more exciting and skilled, so whatever they did I try to emulate.

hmm well
whole method of lifting heavy weights and getting cold between sets
can lead to a lot of injuries

this is why guys do sets
1-lightest
2 heavier
3 heaviest
4 back to light or even heavy depending of your goals

but the tested system is there to prevent injuries

and if you lift proper it actually helps the joints
and if you talk about old bodybulders,
well not discuss old boxers many of whom like have the fat roberto duran look going for them hahaha


also mma guys some are slow and some are not,
also just guys the punches slow does not mean he slow in general

example a lot of guys who wrestle punch slow
but when it comes to grabbing, they are as fast as a cat

[Bonkers]

Check out Periodization training for athletes from T. Bumpa, this guys stuff is what everyone else is really copying IMO.

As for the stiffness, look at Pascal, he looks like a little Holyfield, and he has no conditioning, and I feel it has to do with the inordinate amount of Muscle tissue he has in upper body. Andre Berto too. Always fighting is spurts. Now compare that to Aaron Pryor or Joe Frazier, this guys bodies didn't look half as nice, but could throw punches for days. Henry Armstrong, Joe Louis... the list goes on and on

[Nosbor]

Every athlete can benefit from strength training, simply tailor it to your specific sport. You must keep recovery in mind. For example; If a boxer training like a strength athlete, he would lose some ability to recover thus hurting his boxing training and technique developement.

NIce thread!

[1punch1nder]

too much muscles makes you slow and lose stamina.

[bballchump11]

Originally Posted by Bonkers

Check out Periodization training for athletes from T. Bumpa, this guys stuff is what everyone else is really copying IMO.

As for the stiffness, look at Pascal, he looks like a little Holyfield, and he has no conditioning, and I feel it has to do with the inordinate amount of Muscle tissue he has in upper body. Andre Berto too. Always fighting is spurts. Now compare that to Aaron Pryor or Joe Frazier, this guys bodies didn't look half as nice, but could throw punches for days. Henry Armstrong, Joe Louis... the list goes on and on

is this good? I'm actually trying to get back into lifting weights, because I do body weight exercises now also, but I'm to the point where I can do 10+ one arm pushups and 10+ jumping pistol squats and I need to add more difficulty
[url]***********.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler18.htm[/url]

[Bonkers]

Originally Posted by highguard

hmm well
whole method of lifting heavy weights and getting cold between sets
can lead to a lot of injuries

this is why guys do sets
1-lightest
2 heavier
3 heaviest
4 back to light or even heavy depending of your goals

but the tested system is there to prevent injuries

and if you lift proper it actually helps the joints
and if you talk about old bodybulders,
well not discuss old boxers many of whom like have the fat roberto duran look going for them hahaha


also mma guys some are slow and some are not,
also just guys the punches slow does not mean he slow in general

example a lot of guys who wrestle punch slow
but when it comes to grabbing, they are as fast as a cat

Well, if that works for you that's fine, but I haven't seen that to be trye. Not saying I have the answer, but I don't see what you are saying.

The whole story is that you have to be strong first, then powerful. Being powerful is the whole point for boxing, IMO and having the endurance to stay powerful throughout the fight. So for a boxer, absolute strength 1-5reps makes you stronger, once you have reached your goal in strength, you skip to endurance work. 15+ reps with very little rest, to increase the myoglobin and the glycogen stores in your body.

Staying away from 6-12 reps all together unless you want to raise your weight class, which usually means you are slower in most cases.

Again, I ain't saying this is the law or anything, but all the overly muscled out dudes I have boxed with get too tired. I feel this is because they are doing the old school bodybuilding stuff like I mentioned before.