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Old 06-14-2011, 06:04 PM   #31
KillSomething
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Default Re: Weight Training - is there any point?

See, I'M a skinny weakling. I was 145 when I graduated...AFTER about a year of strength training (gained maybe a pound a month or so). But I was athletic. Throughout 4 years of college I put on some muscle weight from various forms of training, but I'm still 'skinny'. If I got down to a decent bodyfat% my arms would look ridiculous. But I can hit hard, I can take punches, and I have a good level of athleticism despite not being a guy who walks around with his sleeves cut off. So for me, I look to get even skinnier. If I can hurt guys at my current weight, I can definitely hurt guys smaller than me. Just have to be careful not to overtrain and undernourish my body. But I have no problem going through life looking like nothing.

One of the hardest punchers I've ever held mitts for was a SKINNY guy (about 5'10, 130). Not even a fighter, just there to train. I would have NEVER wanted him to gain weight. What's the point? He was a gifted puncher as he was, why not just hone the skills and rip those little guys heads off? Who cares if people weren't scared at the sight of him? Better to be underestimated.

I know some other guys who are skinny weaklings, but not athletic ones. These are the guys who never play sports, eat once a day (chips and soda), read comic books, play video games, don't brush their teeth, etc.

These are the guys you want to bulk up. They were never intended to be that way. But then again, why are they boxing? They need to take up a general fitness program before they even think about becoming an athlete. But a guy who's healthy at his weight and can perform athletically despite not being very muscular might be better off using his natural gifts rather than trying to get new ones. Reinforce success rather than failure. Weak hitter, but fast? Use your speed, train your speed, learn how to win with it. Don't waste your energy trying to become a puncher. All you do is make yourself mediocre in the end. Better to excel in a few aspects than be average in all of them.

A skinny guy is not always weak, a big guy is not always strong.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:25 AM   #32
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Default Re: Weight Training - is there any point?

I do think Killsomething is on to something here. for the most part, the guy who weighs 125 pound who can seriously hurt me is the exception. The guy who weighs 160 pounds and can fight who can hurt me is the rule. I imagine if I trained a bit less on the explosive cardio side and ate a whole lot more protein, higher calories, etc. I would for sure be up near 150-160 lbs by now. While I have not competed in the last few years, if at any time during that period I felt the urge I would much rather step in the ring against a fast but not as hard punching guy than against a precise guy who held instant KO power with his timing.

And if you are a guy who naturally weighs 190 lbs, lets be honest, you are in a tight spot for competition. Bulk up a little bit and suddenly there's NO CAP on the size of the guys you are fighting, cut down to 175 and risk being weight drained, stay at that cruiser and risk fighting guys who are 220 who cut down. That's a super hard decision to make, and a lot of athletic active people seem to be that size nowadays, whereas fifty years ago I would say most athletic active people were probably 150-160 lbs.

I'm glad that for me, the it was pretty easy to stay at a weight I felt strong at, but I can see how it would be really hard for some people to decide where the gains in strength stop or result in decreased endurance, speed, and harder hitting naturally bigger competition.
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: Weight Training - is there any point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramini View Post
Well, the thing is, punch resistance. If you are not weight drained, a muscular chest and arms is not going to help when a 175 lb guy lands an overhand right with leverage on your chin as opposed to a possibly shorter 147 lb guy without as much weight behind his punch. obviously being weight drained weakens you (I took punches better at 125 than I did at 118 )but look at Hearn's fights at Cruiserweight: just about every person he fought wobbled him before he got them out of there. At welter, only the very very very best puncher could dent him after 14 rounds of punishment. He probably hit harder at Cruiser, but his chin wasn't strong even with all that extra muscle and weight.

the key is finding your best competitive weight, where you can say, I am stronger than most at this weight, I feel energetic. But if you are too heavy for your frame you run the risk of getting hurt when you fight competitively, since those guys all for the most part cut and know how to rehydrate somewhat effectively.
More to do with him being 50 and his reflexes being shot to shit
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:34 AM   #34
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Default Re: Weight Training - is there any point?

P4P and head to head heavies do not hit much harder then smaller fighters other factors are important
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:54 AM   #35
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Default Re: Weight Training - is there any point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillSomething View Post
See, I'M a skinny weakling. I was 145 when I graduated...AFTER about a year of strength training (gained maybe a pound a month or so). But I was athletic. Throughout 4 years of college I put on some muscle weight from various forms of training, but I'm still 'skinny'. If I got down to a decent bodyfat% my arms would look ridiculous. But I can hit hard, I can take punches, and I have a good level of athleticism despite not being a guy who walks around with his sleeves cut off. So for me, I look to get even skinnier. If I can hurt guys at my current weight, I can definitely hurt guys smaller than me. Just have to be careful not to overtrain and undernourish my body. But I have no problem going through life looking like nothing.

One of the hardest punchers I've ever held mitts for was a SKINNY guy (about 5'10, 130). Not even a fighter, just there to train. I would have NEVER wanted him to gain weight. What's the point? He was a gifted puncher as he was, why not just hone the skills and rip those little guys heads off? Who cares if people weren't scared at the sight of him? Better to be underestimated.

I know some other guys who are skinny weaklings, but not athletic ones. These are the guys who never play sports, eat once a day (chips and soda), read comic books, play video games, don't brush their teeth, etc.

These are the guys you want to bulk up. They were never intended to be that way. But then again, why are they boxing? They need to take up a general fitness program before they even think about becoming an athlete. But a guy who's healthy at his weight and can perform athletically despite not being very muscular might be better off using his natural gifts rather than trying to get new ones. Reinforce success rather than failure. Weak hitter, but fast? Use your speed, train your speed, learn how to win with it. Don't waste your energy trying to become a puncher. All you do is make yourself mediocre in the end. Better to excel in a few aspects than be average in all of them.

A skinny guy is not always weak, a big guy is not always strong.
A solid post, we don't really disagree. I never said all lightweights are weak or big guys are strong, but the majority of guys who have been training for a few months, decide they want to fight, no prior training, will inevitably not be the strongest of individuals, that's what I meant, and they shouldn't suddenly decide "I need to fight 20lbs below my current skinnyfat barely in shape weight and no strength but its boxing so I HAVE TO LOSE WEIGHT". I agree in being a pound for pound tank though and don't gain weight for the sake of it! but some people don't need to decide anything of the sort for a long while. a guy like yourself, weightlifting as a complement to his sports training is on the right track and will achieve very good results! and that's all there is to it.
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:53 AM   #36
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Default Re: Weight Training - is there any point?

If you're lifting for strength and not to build or increase mass then it's good IMO to do weight training. My punching power always increased quite a bit when I was doing weight trainign along with my regular boxing workouts. And if you are regularly doing a boxing workout and doing enough cardio you won't usually put on much mass anyways. To increase mass you usually do little to no cardio at all and you have to intake more calories then you are burning off everyday.
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