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Old 09-11-2012, 10:44 AM   #46
Nightcrawler
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

i think philly nailed it at the beginning: the top fighters would always be in the mix. and as has been said, you have to take them exactly as they are. don't shrink them or assume any shit. wlad today in the 70s.

they do pretty ****ing well. their size and skills (at least wlads) get them far. vitali would do alright but i just don't have the faith in his chin that others do. wlad has complimented his game with tremendous footwork, timing, distance, jab, patience, etc. he simply doesn't get hit. vitali lacks many of those skills and compensates with leaning back and having a solid chin. let's see that chin against shavers and foreman

in the end, they are top 5 guys and wlad might snag the title depending on the year
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:54 PM   #47
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Which has nothing to do with whether he is a head to head monster or not. He also has fought some of the best if not all of them. Lennox obviously was the best, Sanders was coming off beating Wlad, Kirk Johnson was coming off being robbed against Ruiz and was really unbeaten, Peter was WBC champion, Gomez was an ex-cruser champion with only 1 fluke loss

I'm not a Vitali fan at all but anyone who's boxed at a reasonable level knows full well he's 1 of the hardest to fight in history. Getting past his jab and counter right is an upward struggle for most fighters in history. Himself and Wlad are the biggest top20 HWs by a distance, probably 5-6 natural weight classes heavier than the likes of Marciano, Patterson and Dempsey while being 3-4 weight classes bigger than Frazier. In terms of weight ratio it's like asking a Welterweight to beat a Light Heavyweight

On the outside he is very hard to outjab/outbox, no one's managed it. Wlad, Ali and Holmes are the only boxers I see as having a chance to match him on the outside

To beat him most boxers really need to come forward applying pressure while slipping jabs and back him up with power shots. Lennox, Byrd and Chisora had varying levels of success with this strategy. Still he can counter punch you while doing it and hurt you. Despite being an arm puncher he has good enough power to hurt and press back most opponents. Pressure is an achilles heal for him still, but no one under 200lbs should realistically be expecting to beat him. Frazier maybe has a shot despite the huge weight disparity but Vitali would be the second hardest hitter he faced after Foreman, so Vitali stopping Frazier is a reasonable possibility
It's absolutely nothing to do with h2h. I'm just saying the stat is misleading.

I probably agree with most everything you've said there to be honest. But that doesn't fit my definition of someone who is a h2h beast. That's a semantics issue though, it's clear from your detail our raw valuation is the there or thereabouts.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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What if you had a time machine and you would transfer Usain Bolt to 70s olympics, I wonder how would it play out. Hmm...
Wonder how quick he'd be without his 'Roids?
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:39 PM   #49
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by Goodnite, Irene View Post
Three words for you...Ancient. Shannon. Briggs.

Hilarious.

Your point? Johnny Summerlin x2, Marty Marshall 2 out of 3 (lost to Marshall once), Bert Whitehurst x2! None of these men were even 200 Lbs.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:07 PM   #50
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by Goodnite, Irene View Post
More stats. Gee, what a shock.
You brought up somebody who went the distance with Vitali... I brought a few little guys who went the distance with Liston, one even beat him.

Briggs was stopped twice but for the most part he was a durable fighter. You can't deny his strength and power. Vitali easily beat his ass but he didn't stop him. I'd bet one of my nuts that Briggs would beat the shit out of Summerlin, Marshall, and Whitehurst on their best days.

I totally agree that Vitali hasn't beat any all-time greats... but how many did Liston beat (besides a little guy named Floyd Patterson)? Like I said, Folley and Machen were good but they were not great... even Williams was decent, but far from great. Mike DeJohn, a washed up Nino Valdes, and others are not as impressive as beating Herbie Hide, Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders... even Larry Donald.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:26 AM   #51
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

Would they also adjust their training?

If they had no weights, supplements, superior dietry knowledge, more modern training techniques who knows what they'd be like. If the program i've read is credible then Wlad doesn't even run (swims instead) because of his knees. That shit won't fly against someone like Ali, Holmes, Frazier who had very good stamina. None the less they would be in the upper tier of the division probably even be champs for a bit if they fight the right champ (Vitali i think would turn out better).

Wlad vs Foreman would be a funny fight.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:47 AM   #52
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Would they also adjust their training?

If they had no weights, supplements, superior dietry knowledge, more modern training techniques who knows what they'd be like. If the program i've read is credible then Wlad doesn't even run (swims instead) because of his knees. That shit won't fly against someone like Ali, Holmes, Frazier who had very good stamina. None the less they would be in the upper tier of the division probably even be champs for a bit if they fight the right champ (Vitali i think would turn out better).

Wlad vs Foreman would be a funny fight.
Who would that right champion be? Floyd? To get a championship shot they would probably have to fight Liston, and it's gonna be ugly for them.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:46 AM   #53
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Would they also adjust their training?

If they had no weights, supplements, superior dietry knowledge, more modern training techniques who knows what they'd be like. If the program i've read is credible then Wlad doesn't even run (swims instead) because of his knees. That shit won't fly against someone like Ali, Holmes, Frazier who had very good stamina. None the less they would be in the upper tier of the division probably even be champs for a bit if they fight the right champ (Vitali i think would turn out better).

Wlad vs Foreman would be a funny fight.
Swimming very much pushes your stamina to it's limits if you work it hard. Wlad's workrate over 12 is elite too, I don't question his stamina too much.

Agree that Wlad/Vitali have allot of training/nutrition advantages that they wouldn't necessarily have 50years ago, they'd likely be weaker with 30lbs less muscle
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:16 AM   #54
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
How would the Kbros fare if they fought in the 60s-70s?

They would have been contenders for sure. They would n't have beaten the very best of the champions though,imo.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Wonder how quick he'd be without his 'Roids?
steroids were invented in 1930s and people took them even more back in a day, because nobody even tested for them till recent times.
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