Rigo just signed to fight nonito

[SugarShane_24]

Originally Posted by purephase

The whole point of the comparison was because you made it sound like there was some deeper significance or meaning simply as a result of the names being similar, when that has nothing at all to do with whether or not a fighter is actually suitable at the weight. And as noted in the original post, your Segura comparison was even more inapt.


So to when exactly is the endpoint of giving guys theoretical credit? Should Pacquiao be given the benefit of the doubt to beat middleweights since he had already successfully moved up 8 divisions? Maybe we should go higher? I prefer to give credit to what I see in the ring, and what I saw that night was a guy who was scarcely a bantamweight anymore against a guy who never should have been on in the first place. Sorry if I don't find that particularly impressive.

Why can't one use one's eyes and judgment to discern whether a fighter belonged at a given weight?

You have literally disposed the concept of weight class with that logic. The guy weighed 118 and made weight. Why would you hold it back against him.

[purephase]

Originally Posted by SugarShane_24

You have literally disposed the concept of weight class with that logic. The guy weighed 118 and made weight. Why would you hold it back against him.

No I have not. I'm speaking specifically about how to credit guys for wins against opponents moving up in weight; the mere fact that all such opponents "make" the weight does not make such wins equally impressive nor does it make success at a lower division the only relevant criterion for evaluating the quality of such a fight. Why should Narvaez be "given the benefit of the doubt to jump at bantamweight" when he was grossly undersized in his one fight there and promptly moved back down?

[SugarShane_24]

Originally Posted by purephase

No I have not. I'm speaking specifically about how to credit guys for wins against opponents moving up in weight; the mere fact that all such opponents "make" the weight does not make such wins equally impressive nor does it make success at a lower division the only relevant criterion for evaluating the quality of such a fight. Why should Narvaez be "given the benefit of the doubt to jump at bantamweight" when he was grossly undersized in his one fight there and promptly moved back down?

I see where you're coming from. But then again, it is every fighters right to try and win a title one weight class above. And Narvaez is nothing short of excellent at 118 and 112. The same weight class Donaire is from.

What the other guys mean is that, Donaire have also moved up from 112 beyond. Why not give him any credit?

Simply put, both of them haved just moved up.

[weegriffin]

Originally Posted by SugarShane_24

I see where you're coming from. But then again, it is every fighters right to try and win a title one weight class above. And Narvaez is nothing short of excellent at 118 and 112. The same weight class Donaire is from.

What the other guys mean is that, Donaire have also moved up from 112 beyond. Why not give him any credit?

Simply put, both of them haved just moved up.

To be fair some fighters have the frame and build to move up in weight and still be successful, we don't know if Narvaez could be successful at 118 lbs, but he was able to make 112 lbs into his 30s so he is a natural flyweight/super flyweight. Donaire is a naturally bigger guy or at least appeared to be the bigger of the two.

[IntentionalButt]

[SugarShane_24]

Originally Posted by weegriffin

To be fair some fighters have the frame and build to move up in weight and still be successful, we don't know if Narvaez could be successful at 118 lbs, but he was able to make 112 lbs into his 30s so he is a natural flyweight/super flyweight. Donaire is a naturally bigger guy or at least appeared to be the bigger of the two.

Yeah I get that. And there's is validity to that argument.

But to completely deny Donaire credit for it seemed unfair.

Especially if down the road, Narvaez manages to win a title at 118.

[Nonito Smoak]

Originally Posted by angry cuban

Rigo is rated # 1 @122 .. I m sorry..

Consensus rankings now have Donaire at #1. Rigondeaux is #2.

At the time of Donaire/Nishioka, Nishioka was the consensus #1.

[weegriffin]

Originally Posted by SugarShane_24

Yeah I get that. And there's is validity to that argument.

But to completely deny Donaire credit for it seemed unfair.

Especially if down the road, Narvaez manages to win a title at 118.

I agree, Donaire still deserves credit for the win he beat a a World Class fighter who has been a World champ for years.

Donaire has an underrated resume since he beat Darchinyan he has beat many past/present and future World Champs.

[jan_fan]

Originally Posted by purephase

So to when exactly is the endpoint of giving guys theoretical credit? Should Pacquiao be given the benefit of the doubt to beat middleweights since he had already successfully moved up 8 divisions? Maybe we should go higher? I prefer to give credit to what I see in the ring, and what I saw that night was a guy who was scarcely a bantamweight anymore against a guy who never should have been on in the first place. Sorry if I don't find that particularly impressive.

Man, you call my Segura comparison inapt, your Pacquiao comparison is more inapt. Tell me how is he gonna make the 160 lb scale? he can't even make 154. He's too small for jr middleweight more so than Narvaez is to 118. We can also go farther comparison on how big Margarito is @ 154(or 150 for that fight matter) compared to Donaire @ 118.

Your Hopkins comparison is also well off. How in the world would you compare 3-lb difference to more than 30 lbs difference between Hopkins and Vitali?

SugarShane_24 is right, Narvaez makes the 118 weight - Pacquiao is very far off from making 160. That should even explain everything. And to think, he even beat Margarito in a 150-weight he couldn't even make. Shouldn't it give Narvaez more than benefit of a doubt who made it 118?

Your comparison carries too much exaggeration w/c makes it more inapt.