Liston v Holyfield

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by FlyingFrenchman

Nothing to pick apart. My point is that size isn't really a huge issue here. Similar in size but Holyfield is a bit taller. That has nothing to do with my pick.

I pick Holyfield because I think he was the better fighter overall.

Simpleton? Far from it. I'm just not blinded by nostalgia like so many others.

Liston was a great fighter but his resume was not great IMO. Machen and Folley were very good Heavyweights who were good enough to challenge for the title but not win it (this would be true in most eras, a credit to them). Machen and Folley were small Heavyweights and Holyfield would run thru them like a hot knife thru butter. Patterson was a good HW Champ, but not the most durable HW Champ we've ever seen. Liston did not look good vs. Ali. I think Holyfield would have given Ali more than a few problems.

Liston went 2-2 (2) in World Title Fights. He destroyed Liston x2 and looked like shit vs. Ali x2. He was stopped 3 times. He struggled with small HW Summerlin x2 (early in his career) and LHW Marty Marshall. He beat the crap out of the overhyped Williams x2. What else did he really do?

Well, thanks for telling me all this.

[FlyingFrenchman]

Williams managed to stop Ernie Terrell in 7 and lose a SD to Ernie Terrell in a rematch. He also drew with Eddie Machen. Those are the good things he did.

[FlyingFrenchman]

Williams managed to stop Ernie Terrell in 7 and lose a SD to Ernie Terrell in a rematch. He also drew with Eddie Machen. Those are the good things he did.

[ETM]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

If Holy can brawl with Bowe I'm sure he can brawl with Liston.

He did brawl with Bowe. He was beaten up and almost KOd the first time and then he was KOd by a declining Bowe in their 3rd fight.

[Theron]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

If Holy can brawl with Bowe I'm sure he can brawl with Liston.

I dont think Bowe was as physically strong as Liston, and his money punch was the overhand right and uppercut, Holyfield could do well blocking the uppercut on the inside most of the time but Bowe didnt have as good a left hook as Liston did and Liston's right was straight not telegraphed and more of a classic boxer style with better head movement than Bowe,
Liston
Pyhsically stronger
Will be better on the inside
Better Jab
Better left hook
Better head movement
Great chin

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by ETM

He did brawl with Bowe. He was beaten up and almost KOd the first time and then he was KOd by a declining Bowe in their 3rd fight.

But in the first he finished the fight the stronger fighter. In the trilogy he had bowe on the verge of being stopped himself before gassing and he was more declined than Bowe by this point.

I think Bowe hits harder than Liston and I think he's a better inside fighter. My point being if Holy can survive toe to toe exchanges with Big Daddy he can survive them with Sonny.

That's not to say he'd win the brawl, but I certainly don't see him getting stopped.

I'm still undecided as to who I favour.

[Theron]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

But in the first he finished the fight the stronger fighter. In the trilogy he had bowe on the verge of being stopped himself before gassing and he was more declined than Bowe by this point.

I think Bowe hits harder than Liston and I think he's a better inside fighter. My point being if Holy can survive toe to toe exchanges with Big Daddy he can survive them with Sonny.

That's not to say he'd win the brawl, but I certainly don't see him getting stopped.

I'm still undecided as to who I favour.

I dont think Bowe hit harder but i mean no point arguing cant tell wont be much of a difference anyway, remember though Liston had a left hook as well probably his best punch and he threw the right straight and had grreat uppercuts as well, he has more range and variety than Bowe

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

But in the first he finished the fight the stronger fighter. In the trilogy he had bowe on the verge of being stopped himself before gassing and he was more declined than Bowe by this point.

I think Bowe hits harder than Liston and I think he's a better inside fighter. My point being if Holy can survive toe to toe exchanges with Big Daddy he can survive them with Sonny.

That's not to say he'd win the brawl, but I certainly don't see him getting stopped.

I'm still undecided as to who I favour.

What has decided your opinion on this??

[SP_Mauler]

Liston wins by late KO or UD. Evander will get jabbed to death without being able to stop it, I suspect Holyfield will try to rush Liston and either Liston uses his better footwork to retreat and again jabs or he brawls with Holyfield in which case I think Liston takes him out late.

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by ETM

He did brawl with Bowe. He was beaten up and almost KOd the first time and then he was KOd by a declining Bowe in their 3rd fight.

I'd also add Bowe was not as devastating as Liston, certainly never proved himself so. In any case Liston will be looking to keep Holyfield on the end of his jab, something he's proven to quite susceptible to, not brawl in close which is Holys prefered method like Bowe got suckered into.

And are people seriously disputing Liston with his 15" fists, 84" reach, 17" biceps and 26" legs was somehow smaller than Holyfield when Holyfield had to use modern supplements, weights and PEDS to make the weight while Liston just ran, sparred and hit the bag?

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by SP_Mauler

What has decided your opinion on this??

Bigger more solid and stopping holy is better than any one liston stopped.