Joe Jeannette vs. Georges Carpentier

[mattdonnellon]

Carps wins over Wells and Beckett have some merit IMO and his game losses to Klaus and Papke came when he was very young. The respected poster Klompton raises doubts about some of his fights but he didn't convince me for one. Further Tunney claims to have been impressed by the Frenchman and he sure landed one heck of a punch on Jack-maybe he needs re-evaluation here?

[mattdonnellon]

Very strange period, you had the blacks, Johnson, Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Jim Johnson, Clarke, Wills, Norfolk: Big white hopes, Willard, McCarthy, Fulton, Moran, Coffey, Palzar Morris etc and small heavies/light heavies Dillon, Carp, Levinsky, Greb, Gibbons, Miske, Gunboat and its hard to rate them. In some ways one hell of a decade as fellows like Flynn, Wells, Cowler, McMahon, Wuest, Brennan, Kaufman, Ross, Meehan, Pelkey, Rodel, Ferguson and a host more were knocking around too. Oh and a fella called Dempsey............

[lufcrazy]

Strange period. It's easy to look back and conclude the black dynamite crew were always the best around but maybe that needs reconsidering.

[BeerGut]

Here is the report of the Carpentier/Jeannette fight from Boxing (Boxing News) ..... though I'm not sure that Hurdman-Lucas is the most nuetral of observers for a Carpentier contest:

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by BeerGut

Here is the report of the Carpentier/Jeannette fight from Boxing (Boxing News) ..... though I'm not sure that Hurdman-Lucas is the most nuetral of observers for a Carpentier contest:

seems like the Gent writing this had no axe to grind, Carpentier dropped him in the 1st and seemed to have boxed masterfully....I think I have to take a better look at George Carpentier # 1 for taking a fight with Joe Jennette and # 2 by most of the unbiased accounts told to me and read seems to have won clearly

[SolomonDeedes]

Here's a dissenting point of view - apparently an eyewitness account by the Paris correspondent of the London Times. His conclusion:

Except in the 12th, 13th and 14th rounds, when he was plainly weary, Carpentier was carrying the battle to the bigger man, who invariably took the centre of the ring and awaited the gallant onslaughts of the dashing young Gaul. Thus Carpentier fought himself almost to a standstill, meanwhile giving an attractive display, although many of his blows landed with little force, because they were gauged so cleverly by Jeannette, who got in a clear majority of the solid fighting that counts, and did not try to be spectacular. As a result he won, while Carpentier was getting to be a sorry sight at the finish. There was hardly anything to indicate that Jeannette had been in a 15-round glove-fight.

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[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Strange period. It's easy to look back and conclude the black dynamite crew were always the best around but maybe that needs reconsidering.

I would say the black crew were still the best around by a good distance based on the fights I've seen of them against the white guys we have of them on film against at least they all look generally to be having a cakewalk and with A LOT in reserve aswell - they were in my opinion always affected to some detrimental level by the handcuffs - but yeah Carp is hugely under rated these days - people don't realise these days what a famous fighter he was by the people of the day and what an admired fighter he was - he was definately one of the biggest guns of the day - I know he was a bit of a boy wonder - but certainly on a P4P European level he was incredible he fought in and won either national or European title in every one of the weight divisions and was world light heavyweight champion and challenged for the ultimate crown against Dempsey - my Grandad grew up in that era and he used to rave about Carpenter all the time he really spoke about him in reverential tones as though he was one of the great figures of the day

[Bummy Davis]

I am still seeing a disparity of opinions and from what I was told Carpentier won but I guess it was one of those close fights where you could chose the style you favor. For me either way Georges stock goes up just having Jennette down and being competitive in a 15 rounder, after all I have always heard the legend of Johnson,Jennette,Langford and Wills and nice to see they were not avoided by all whites or at least the European ones.

Credit to George Carpentier & co

[lufcrazy]

this is a sentiment I expressed in another thread but given that some people have scored this fight for jeannette, there's no way I can consider it a carpentier victory without watching it myself.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

this is a sentiment I expressed in another thread but given that some people have scored this fight for jeannette, there's no way I can consider it a carpentier victory without watching it myself.

Carpentier was just 20, against that Jeannette was 35,the only heavyweight of any note on Carpentiers record then was Bombadier Billy Wells, indeed Wells was only the second heavyweight that Carpentier had faced ,Albert Lurie being the other,[ there is no form for Lurie up to that time ,was it his debut? ].

This does give me pause to think that Jeannette might have been lucky he didn't get that title shot with Johnson in 1914.

If Mendoza was here, and it had been Johnson in there, instead of Jeannette ,he would be crowing that a supper, [his spelling,] middleweight had knocked him down.

Difference being that Jeannette was a very experienced , full fledged heavyweight with 18/20lbs on Carpentier, whereas Johnson was around the same weight as Choynski ,and more or less a novice when Choynski beat him.
Double standards?

[Mendoza]

McVey,

Jeannette welcomed tough fights from 1909-1915. He would fight anyone. Yes, he could be knocked down, but he got up. Johnson, of course would not agree to fight Langford, Jeanette, or McVey.

There is no double standard here if you are referring to Choysnki. Johnson had 20+ fights under his belt, and I believe was 23 when he was Ko'd in 3 rounds.

I have heard mix reports as to who won here. I chalk it up as a guy on the way up ( who I think is a tad over rated ) vs a top level guy on the way down who had many tough fights in his career.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

McVey,

Jeannette welcomed tough fights from 1909-1915. He would fight anyone. Yes, he could be knocked down, but he got up. Johnson, of course would not agree to fight Langford, Jeanette, or McVey.

There is no double standard here if you are referring to Choysnki. Johnson had 20+ fights under his belt, and I believe was 23 when he was Ko'd in 3 rounds.

I have heard mix reports as to who won here. I chalk it up as a guy on the way up ( who I think is a tad over rated ) vs a top level guy on the way down who had many tough fights in his career.

The double standard is self evident.
You castigate a young Johnson ,[whom Choynski himself stated was almost a novice, and furthermore was as near as makes no difference the same weight as Choynski,] for being stopped by Choynski.
Yet you think its fine that an experierenced, world rated heavyweight is floored by a 168lbs, 20 years old fighter, having his 4th fight at heavyweight , and moreover, many newspapers say that 20 year old was robbed.
Could be knocked down ? Yes he could, and by fighters who could not only not floor Johnson, they could not beat him.

You've heard mixed reports?
How about posting some that say Jeannette deserved the verdict?

[mattdonnellon]

Thonks Beergut for posting that "boxing" report, it was as I remembered it. Also the dissenting report citing Joe's quality over Georges work rate.
A great and very important fight that is so overlooked, probably because it didn't take place in America, a bit like Goddard-Jackson methinks.

[BeerGut]

Carpentier-Jeannette was filmed ...... would be great if it was rediscovered.

[lufcrazy]

I'm sure carpentier put up a great effort in this fight but I can't call it a robbery without seeing it myself.

Those who have seen it are entitled to that opinion but I haven't so I ain't.