Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Jack

Assuming a catchweight of 164lbs. Who takes this one?

Hard fight to call. Hagler would have to pressure Clazaghe like he was Joe Frazier or Rocky Marciano to win. Maybe it just me, but I sometimes think Hagler was a bit of a slow stater, and employed poor tactics by boxing when he should have brawled, and by brawling when he should have boxed.

If Hagler wins, you'd have to assume stoppage. I think Clazaghe is a bit too big, smart, and quick, and would last the distance. Even though Clazahge might be the more damaged of the two after the final bell rings, I recon he wins on rounds won.

[Manassa]

Hagler, slow starter?

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Manassa

Hagler, slow starter?

Hagler was a slow starter at times, and sometimes not. I don't think he started slow enough when looking back at his career to be termed a "slow starter". Maybe people have Mugabi and Leonard etched into their minds.

[Bummy Davis]

would be a good battle but Joe has those fast hands and good movement, southpaw style.....Hagler has the edge in power but Joe can pop enough, hampered by his hands but I like Joe close UD

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Hagler was a slow starter at times, and sometimes not. I don't think he started slow enough when looking back at his career to be termed a "slow starter". Maybe people have Mugabi and Leonard etched into their minds.

Probably. There just aren't enough examples to warrant that description, not if we're talking about the best Hagler there was, anyway. You and I both could rattle off several fights that showed the opposite was true.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Manassa

Probably. There just aren't enough examples to warrant that description, not if we're talking about the best Hagler there was, anyway. You and I both could rattle off several fights that showed the opposite was true.

Hagler adjusted to his opposition sensibly when putting his foot on the pedal early. When looking at how Duran was performing at jr middleweight it would have been a gamble to just jump on him during the first 3-4 rounds. It's only in hindsight that we can make such a claim on Hagler's chin and durability the way we do now, hence the reason many picked Hearns to knock him out.

And Hagler's punch power wasn't something he could rely on to start smoking during the early stages. He was a sensible strategist who broke down his opponents. Only when he seen poor defensive lapses within his opponents would he open up early or when an opponent decide he wanted war, ala Minter and Hearns, etc.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Hagler adjusted to his opposition sensibly when putting his foot on the pedal early. When looking at how Duran was performing at jr middleweight it would have been a gamble to just jump on him during the first 3-4 rounds. It's only in hindsight that we can make such a claim on Hagler's chin and durability the way we do now, hence the reason many picked Hearns to knock him out.

And Hagler's punch power wasn't something he could rely on to start smoking during the early stages. He was a sensible strategist who broke down his opponents. Only when he seen poor defensive lapses within his opponents would he open up early or when an opponent decide he wanted war, ala Minter and Hearns, etc.

Duran was a natural light weight. Yet he almost out boxed Hagler. I think Clazaghe is even harder to out box and hit cleanly. I also think Clazaghe took a better middle weight punch in comparison to Duran.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Duran was a natural light weight. Yet he almost out boxed Hagler. I think Clazaghe is even harder to out box and hit cleanly. I also think Clazaghe took a better middle weight punch in comparison to Duran.

Fair enough. But I was strictly replying to Manassa's point on Hagler and starting slowly. My last post was nowt to do with Hagler against Calzaghe whatsoever. And yes I do know I'm in a thread with others discussing that particular fight. I do that from time to time.

[Mike T]

If Joe tries to bang with Hagler than it's a tko or ko for Hagler. If Joe boxes who knows? Haglers boxing ability, jab, and generalship of the ring is superb.

[Doppleganger]

I'm pretty certain that, whatever the outcome, this fight goes the distance, unless cuts become a factor. Both guys have stout chins and good but not great power. To me that equals a decision fight.

[JohnThomas1]

Calz by tight UD. His awkwardness would never be
worked out in the initial encounter, tho a rematch would be dangerous territory.

[jc]

mm I think Joe nicks it aswel. He has the speed advantage aswel as weight advantage, the only problem is if Calz struggled with 168, a catchweight of 64 prob would be too hard and in a long hard fight that could spell disaster.

I think Joe's tricky enough to get a tight decision though.

[Dave's Top Ten]

The weight advantage would be Hagler's. He would probably come in around 160 (he did fight over 160 a few times in his pre champioship career). JC struggled with 168 and would be weak at 164. Just because you whup unproven Jeff Lacy, unproven Kessler, ancient survivalist Hopkins and the creaking shell of Roy Jones doesn't mean you beat an ATG middle, assuming we are talking peaks. I still remember JC struggling with ordinary Robin Reid (and others) before all these "big fights". No way a weight weakened, overated supermiddle sees the end of the fight against Marv.

[radianttwilight]

Calzaghe close but clear UD.

Too big, too awkward, too many punches, and also too durable for Hagler to stop.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Dave's Top Ten

The weight advantage would be Hagler's. He would probably come in around 160 (he did fight over 160 a few times in his pre champioship career). JC struggled with 168 and would be weak at 164. Just because you whup unproven Jeff Lacy, unproven Kessler, ancient survivalist Hopkins and the creaking shell of Roy Jones doesn't mean you beat an ATG middle, assuming we are talking peaks. I still remember JC struggling with ordinary Robin Reid (and others) before all these "big fights". No way a weight weakened, overated supermiddle sees the end of the fight against Marv.

That's a very extreme view from one side of the fence. Let me provide similar banter from the other. Bear in mind this isn't my exact stance, but simply my polar view....


Noway Calz loses to someone that could not handle a fattened rusty 147 pounder - the weight advantage would be Joe's per the way Hagler struggled vs a bloated lightweight and a bloated welter.

Marvin struggled earlier career against a limited short on talent fighter in Antuofermo and Joe brings so much more to the table. As well he shared his losses. Wins over a spindly glass jawed Hearns and a Hamsho who thinks "defence" is summin one builds around "dehouse" just don't cut it. The one top fast fighter Marv faced had him all at sea on many occasions, and Joe is so much better suited to fighting bigger men and much more durable at the weight. Joe's the man.