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Old 11-15-2008, 02:02 PM   #31
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
That's a very extreme view from one side of the fence. Let me provide similar banter from the other. Bear in mind this isn't my exact stance, but simply my polar view....


Noway Calz loses to someone that could not handle a fattened rusty 147 pounder - the weight advantage would be Joe's per the way Hagler struggled vs a bloated lightweight and a bloated welter.

Marvin struggled earlier career against a limited short on talent fighter in Antuofermo and Joe brings so much more to the table. As well he shared his losses. Wins over a spindly glass jawed Hearns and a Hamsho who thinks "defence" is summin one builds around "dehouse" just don't cut it. The one top fast fighter Marv faced had him all at sea on many occasions, and Joe is so much better suited to fighting bigger men and much more durable at the weight. Joe's the man.
JT, to be honest those views seem several times more extreme than the ones I laid out. Not really polar. Let's get a little more realistic. JC has proven himself an excellent fighter over the years, but his 'greatness' comes from fighting unproven fighters or 'shells'. I was at the fight at MSG and was shocked how little RJJ had left. He was done. He still managed to have JC almost out in the first round. At supermiddle, I think prime Toney and Jones handle JC without too many problems. Prime Hopkins comes up from middleweight and handles him fairly easily. Prime Eubank perhaps nicks it. Micheal Watson would have given him fits in a similar way Reid did. Calzaghe STRUGGLED with 168. 164? He would be drained! After a fiddly few opening rounds the fight becomes one sided against Hagler, who I think ends up pummeling Calzaghe. Bottom line, I think a few of us are getting carried away with JC. At 168? Granted, that would be more entertaining.

Oh my goodness I can see Calzaghe's head snapping back now as he on rushes onto Hagler's right jab. Down goes Joe ...again
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Dave's Top Ten
After a fiddly few opening rounds the fight becomes one sided against Hagler, who I think ends up pummeling Calzaghe.
Calzaghe has the speed, punch variety, and sound enough defense not to get pummeled by Hagler. He's also got the ability to change tactics and adjust accordingly to make those pummeling moments brief.

I can see Hagler having trouble with Calzaghe's speed and clusters of punches. No question about it.
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Calzaghe has the speed, punch variety, and sound enough defense not to get pummeled by Hagler. He's also got the ability to change tactics and adjust accordingly to make those pummeling moments brief.

I can see Hagler having trouble with Calzaghe's speed and clusters of punches. No question about it.
So do I Robbi, in the early rounds. The 164 limit, however, would make the pummelling a distinct possibility as Calzaghe weakens.
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
That's a very extreme view from one side of the fence. Let me provide similar banter from the other. Bear in mind this isn't my exact stance, but simply my polar view....


Noway Calz loses to someone that could not handle a fattened rusty 147 pounder - the weight advantage would be Joe's per the way Hagler struggled vs a bloated lightweight and a bloated welter.

Marvin struggled earlier career against a limited short on talent fighter in Antuofermo and Joe brings so much more to the table. As well he shared his losses. Wins over a spindly glass jawed Hearns and a Hamsho who thinks "defence" is summin one builds around "dehouse" just don't cut it. The one top fast fighter Marv faced had him all at sea on many occasions, and Joe is so much better suited to fighting bigger men and much more durable at the weight. Joe's the man.
****ing hell

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Old 11-15-2008, 02:29 PM   #35
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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So do I Robbi, in the early rounds. The 164 limit, however, would make the pummelling a distinct possibility as Calzaghe weakens.
Apologies if someone has already mentioned it, but the weight limit in this fantasy matchup is CLEARLY to the detriment of Calzaghe and should be considered when theorizing on the outcome.
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Apologies if someone has already mentioned it, but the weight limit in this fantasy matchup is CLEARLY to the detriment of Calzaghe and should be considered when theorizing on the outcome.
Good point, I never thought that it might be Calzaghe who suffers. It's not like Hagler has to weigh 164 or 168 either, he'd likely come in quite lean.
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Good point, I never thought that it might be Calzaghe who suffers. It's not like Hagler has to weigh 164 or 168 either, he'd likely come in quite lean.
Yep a fight at 168 is far more interesting. I pick peak Jones, Toney, Hopkins all to beat Joe. So why not Hagler? Good fights though but not as good as Hagler, Jones, Toney, Hopkins fighting each other. Calzaghe not in the same class.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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So do I Robbi, in the early rounds. The 164 limit, however, would make the pummelling a distinct possibility as Calzaghe weakens.
The Calzaghe of the last 3-4 years, yes. Just because he wasn't getting the big fights around 2000-2002 doesn't mean he couldn't cope with a high calibre fighter like Hagler at that particular time. He'd more than likely make 164lbs comfortably back then and he'd not have been weakened as much as he would have been in his later super-middleweight reign.

So this is a mismatch based on Calzaghe being weakened at the weight? Because a fight that develops into a pummeling is as good as mismatch, although that depends on how well the fighter being pummeled does before it eventually becomes a pummelling.

What about if Hagler steps up to 168 or 175 and fights Calzaghe? I reckon it would Hagler who'd be slow and sluggish and it might well be a pummelling for him with Calzaghe's clear advantages in speed and carrying the weight better.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Dave's Top Ten
So do I Robbi, in the early rounds. The 164 limit, however, would make the pummelling a distinct possibility as Calzaghe weakens.
And I'm not a Calzaghe fan by the way. I'm more of a Hagler fan, easily. However, I'm not biased. I'm not the type who needs to somehow find a way to make a case for my favourite in a mythical match-up. I just call it as I see it when giving an opinion on the outcome.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:38 PM   #40
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

I think the Hpkins that lost to JC would give Hagler plently of trouble ...he had the style to handle Hagler...B-Hop is strong @ 175, I think its his natural weight and his age did not show up...Clazages speed caused him trouble and his non stop action, as far as Jones he would still be dangerous for anyone @ 175 if he can get in the shape he was for JC...Calzage has some of the best adaptablity that I have seen in modern times...Intellegent man and I think he can Handle Hagler..Remember Hagler had trouble with a smaller comebacking Leonard and lost for the same reasons...Joe can do what Leonard did but bigger
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

Calzaghe would've beaten Toney. I'd have been willing to bet a fair deal of money on it.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

Close fight and hard to call, but i'd pick Calzaghe if it was at 168. Don't know how 164 would affect him.

One more thing: the size difference here is larger than most would think. Calzaghe's ring weight was around the LHW limit for most of his SMW fights (187lbs last weekend, Marciano's weight), Hagler as far as i know was little over 160.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:47 PM   #43
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
I think the Hpkins that lost to JC would give Hagler plently of trouble ...he had the style to handle Hagler...B-Hop is strong @ 175, I think its his natural weight and his age did not show up...Clazages speed caused him trouble and his non stop action, as far as Jones he would still be dangerous for anyone @ 175 if he can get in the shape he was for JC...Calzage has some of the best adaptablity that I have seen in modern times...Intellegent man and I think he can Handle Hagler..Remember Hagler had trouble with a smaller comebacking Leonard and lost for the same reasons...Joe can do what Leonard did but bigger
Try and keep comparisons of fighters to their peaks - it's far more interesting. Hagler was nowhere near his peak against Leonard. It's like comparing Holmes (against Spinks) to other ATG heavies.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:47 PM   #44
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
Remember Hagler had trouble with a smaller comebacking Leonard and lost for the same reasons...Joe can do what Leonard did but bigger
Not only did Leonard and Calzaghe fight nothing alike stylistically, but Calzaghe never has resorted to using the type of gameplan that Leonard used on Hagler, not to mention that was a past prime version of Hagler anyway. Terrible comparison.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:47 PM   #45
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Default Re: Marvin Hagler vs. Joe Calzaghe

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Calzaghe would've beaten Toney. I'd have been willing to bet a fair deal of money on it.
Yeah, big stylistic edge for him there.
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