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Old 08-11-2007, 10:53 AM   #76
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Foreman did amazing things for his age, but he was also very careful in picking his opposition.

Pffffft,first of all,who isn't?

Secondly,facing Holyfield,Morrison,Moorer in the 90's isn't peanuts.
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:56 PM   #77
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

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Pffffft,first of all,who isn't?

Secondly,facing Holyfield,Morrison,Moorer in the 90's isn't peanuts.
Holyfield and Moorer were the champions, he had no choice.
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:00 PM   #78
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What's more, Sonny is grossly misrepresenting Foreman's win over Moorer as being an average feat. Like it or not, Moorer was the lineal champion, and not just a mere alphabet holder. He defeated a slightly declining Holyfield, but one who was coming off of the biggest win of his career against Bowe nonetheless. Moorer was also undefeated in 35 pro fights, and had held world titles at both lightheavyweight and heavyweight. Foreman's win over Moorer was a clear cut success. There are no excusses. There was no controversy, or gift decisions. Foreman kncked out Moorer. Plain and simple. I'm tired of people trying to diminish this impressive piece of boxing history by saying stupid things like " Foreman landed a lucky shot" or " Moorer just got careless " or " Moorer was a lightheavyweight who became a fluke chamion ", and of course my favorite " I'll bet it was fixed ". Ridiculous.

I agree and all, but others go around making it seem like Foreman was destroying Moorer. Fact is, he did sort of get a lucky shot. He set it up though. He saw Moorer was getting careless, and he made him pay. I personally think it is an amazing feet, but its not like he was beating the piss out of Moorer. And IMO if they had a rematch, Moorer would have beaten him.
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:08 PM   #79
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And IMO if they had a rematch, Moorer would have beaten him.

Foreman beating Ali in a rematch.
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:31 PM   #80
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

Foreman did beat Moorer but as others have mentioned none of the other guys he beat were rated very highly. Additionally, other heavyweights were far more deserving of a shot against Moorer than Foreman was.

A young Foreman lost to Jimmy Young who not long after lost to Ossie Ocasio. Does this mean Ossie Ocasio was a better heavyweight than Foreman?
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:49 PM   #81
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A young Foreman lost to Jimmy Young who not long after lost to Ossie Ocasio. Does this mean Ossie Ocasio was a better heavyweight than Foreman?

No,just means that Young was mentally shot because of his loss to Norton.
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Old 08-11-2007, 03:27 PM   #82
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

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IMO if they had a rematch, Moorer would have beaten him.
Not necessarily. Moorer gave Holyfield a rematch, not long after, and this time lost in eight rounds, suggesting that perhaps Moorer was declining a bit himself. What's more, I belive Foreman had Moorer's number after that match, and knew how to catch him.
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Old 08-11-2007, 03:34 PM   #83
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Foreman did beat Moorer but as others have mentioned none of the other guys he beat were rated very highly. Additionally, other heavyweights were far more deserving of a shot against Moorer than Foreman was.
Did every challenger in the history of the sport deserve title shots? I think not not. In the period between the Holyfield fight in 1991, and the Moorer fight of 1994, Foreman defeated fringe contender Alex Stewart, in one of the bloodiest and most grueling fights of the ninties. He also KO'd undefeated prospect Jimmy Ellis, and Pierre Cotezer, who less than a year earlier was ranked #1. Lastly, he lost a decision to top rater Morrison. Point I'm making here, is that the guy fought 4 consecutive respectable opponents beating 3 of them, and losing to the 4th via the distance. Personally, there weren't too many fighters in 1994, who were more deserving than Foreman. In fact, I can't think of any. Bowe had just lost to Holyfield. Holyfield had just lost to Moorer and was in a temporary retirment mode. Lewis had recently lost to Mccall. Tyson was still in Jail.
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:41 PM   #84
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

[quote=mr. magoo]
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Did every challenger in the history of the sport deserve title shots? I think not not. In the period between the Holyfield fight in 1991, and the Moorer fight of 1994, Foreman defeated fringe contender Alex Stewart, in one of the bloodiest and most grueling fights of the ninties. He also KO'd undefeated prospect Jimmy Ellis, and Pierre Cotezer, who less than a year earlier was ranked #1. Lastly, he lost a decision to top rater Morrison. Point I'm making here, is that the guy fought 4 consecutive respectable opponents beating 3 of them, and losing to the 4th via the distance. Personally, there weren't too many fighters in 1994, who were more deserving than Foreman. In fact, I can't think of any. Bowe had just lost to Holyfield. Holyfield had just lost to Moorer and was in a temporary retirment mode. Lewis had recently lost to Mccall. Tyson was still in Jail.
But Foreman got blessed twice. He got a shot against Holyfield, and then he gets another shot two years later against Moorer? Riddick Bowe had a few good wins under his belt by the time Foreman fought Moorer: Buster Mathis, Larry Donald, or Herbie Hide? I can't remember exactly which guys, but I know Bowe was active and winning. So, Foreman losing to Morrison and then not fighting for over a year was worth more than Bowe being the heavyweight champion as of November 1993 and then winning a few fights after he lost it to Holyfield? As for Lewis, Teddy Atlas explained in his new book that the Moorer camp considered Lewis to be too dangerous to fight at the time.
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:54 PM   #85
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

[quote=AnthonyJ74][quote=mr. magoo]

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Riddick Bowe had a few good wins under his belt by the time Foreman fought Moorer: Buster Mathis, Larry Donald, or Herbie Hide?
Riddick Bowe lost his title in November of 1993. The following year in November of 1994, Foreman fought and upset Michael Moorer. During the course of the 12 month period between Nov. of 93' and Nov of 94, Bowe had but one fight, which was a no contest against Buster Mathis. Therefore, he really had no wins to speak of within that time frame.


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As for Lewis, Teddy Atlas explained in his new book that the Moorer camp considered Lewis to be too dangerous to fight at the time
This may well be the case, but what does that have to do with the fact that Lewis was K0'd by Mccall in September of 1994?
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Old 08-11-2007, 05:33 PM   #86
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

True, he was KO'd in September of 1994. But Moorer and his camp could have chosen to unify against Lewis earlier in the year instead of fighting Foreman. What date was the Foreman/Moorer fight signed? I'm sure a Lewis/Moorer fight would have been a bigger seller than was a Lewis/McCall fight.
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Old 08-11-2007, 05:53 PM   #87
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

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True, he was KO'd in September of 1994. But Moorer and his camp could have chosen to unify against Lewis earlier in the year instead of fighting Foreman. What date was the Foreman/Moorer fight signed? I'm sure a Lewis/Moorer fight would have been a bigger seller than was a Lewis/McCall fight.
I don't know , but Moorer had just taken the title from Holy, In April 1994, and Lewis defended his title against Phil Jackson in may of that same year. Therefore the time frames were a bit close to be signing for a unification match.

By the way, can you really hold it against Moorer for fighting Foreman, when Bowe defended his title against Jesse Ferguson, and a washed up Dokes, while Lewis' first two title defenses were against Phil Jackson and Oliver Mccall?
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:03 PM   #88
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Default Re: Foreman - Is it telling that...

Lewis may have been coming off a loss but was still far more deserving of a shot than Foreman.
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:15 PM   #89
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Lewis may have been coming off a loss but was still far more deserving of a shot than Foreman.

First of all, Lewis lost to MCcall in September of 94'. Foreman and Moorer were scheduled to meet 2 months later in November. There was no possible way for Lewis to meet Moorer, as the fight had already been signed, and Lennox had just gotten his ass kicked. The time frames didn't work. Secondly, I disagree that he was more deserving than Foreman. In 81 career fights, George never got his ass knocked out by a fighter like Mccall.
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:24 PM   #90
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Oliver McCall seems like a more worthy opponnent than the 90s Foreman so I don't think this choice of opponnent is that bad.
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