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Old 08-06-2007, 11:21 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Crossed armed defense...?

As in what Archie Moore created and Foreman used during his comeback.

Who else uses it?

What are it's benefits?

Weaknesses?
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

I enjoy watching Moore use this and trying it on my own.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Very weak vs the Swarmer types of fighters like Fraizer or Marciano or Armstrong imo.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

you can't punch back from that position. For a guy that has huge arms - like Foreman - it would be a good thing, but you still have to unspool your arms in order to punch.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:32 AM   #5
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Actually Foreman didn't use the cross-armed style very successfully during his comeback. It worked miserably against Holyfield. Against Moorer, Big George returned to a more convention high hands defense, catching and trapping punches in his gloves.

Ken Norton used a type of cross-armed style. It didn't work well for him because with his long arms it cost him a split second to untangle from defense to go on offense. It also forced him to "fight short," ducking his head, instead of fighting tall.

For tall fighters it's usually better to fight tall, using their height and reach. If they're not quick enough to duck, dodge and slip punches, boxers like Winky Wright have proven the high hands defense works well.

For Archie Moore, Joe Frazier, Dwight Muhammad Qawi and other fireplug shaped fighters, the cross-armed style works well.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

I think Lex said it all.

Last edited by Heavyrighthand; 04-18-2006 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Gene Fullmer was another who used it.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Paulino Uzcudun used it, in part because he couldn't straighten his left arm completely due to an early wood chopping accident. Years later, Joe Frazier was another who couldn't completely straighten his left, and that may be the reason behind his using it. Archie Moore was probably the most defensively skilled of the cross armed stylists. Generally, it works best when the user has fast reflexes, or tremendous strength.

What I'm curious to know is who used it before Uzcudun? (If anybody.)
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Max Baer was another fighter who I've seen use that technique with some regularity.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Quote:
Weaknesses?

Uppercut
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Norton and Holyfield.

You can block the uppercut in cross guard.

You can counter from cross guard.

It is a complete and effective guard. People who have been caught with uppercuts or not countering from it simply aren't great at it.

You will see many fighters employ it for moments but not fight exclusively out of it i.e. Cintron and Cotto.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Quote:
It is a complete and effective guard. People who have been caught with uppercuts or not countering from it simply aren't great at it.



Sure. As long as you keep your chin very low. But still your temple is very vulnerable. So, maybe effective in some way, but complete not at all.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

The Archie Moore type defence is great when applied effectively. Gene Fullmer and George Foreman used to use it for pure block value, but they didn't master the counters like Moore. At first it seems like punching from such a position (arms crossing the body) could be ineffective, but there is a vital facet that needs to be explored; angles. Moore used the correct body angles and waist movement that needed to be combined with the arm defence and that's how he was able to get off counter punches without sacrificing speed.

The main advantages of using such a defence are unorthodoxity (hard for opponents to adapt to) and alternative blocking angles. For instance, Moore found it was hard to protect his operation scar using the conventional guard, so he evolved his defence to cover that vulnerable area. Gene Fullmer, as a shorter fighter, developed the defence as a means of plowing through his opponents' uppercuts. Contrary to popular belief, proper use of the cross-arm defence makes an adept uppercut deterrent - nobody likes hitting elbows.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Sure. As long as you keep your chin very low. But still your temple is very vulnerable. So, maybe effective in some way, but complete not at all.
A fighter should keep his chin low but not necessarily all the time. That is part of the reason they can be open to uppercuts.

The right glove catches everything. The outside of the glove stops left hooks and uppercuts, the inside of the glove stops jabs, straights and rights. This is before you've introduced the fighters left shoulder, elbows, forearms, head movement etc

Head is completely blocked from both sides when the fight chooses to block. The left side of the head is blocked via two methods. The shoulder blocks the chin and the right glove crosses across the face to block the temple.

I maintain, it is just as complete as the other guards. For me I think a fighter needs to master all the guards.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Crossed armed defense...?

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Head is completely blocked from both sides when the fight chooses to block. The left side of the head is blocked via two methods. The shoulder blocks the chin and the right glove crosses across the face to block the temple.



Yeah, only if you have the skills of Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four team.

Man,the crossed arm def can't be performed without neglecting any area of the head. Either your chin is vulnerable to uppercuts or any temple to hooks. It surely is a perfect block against hooks to the chin,but still there are some weak points. Furthermore it leaves your body totally uncovered for body shots.
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