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Old 08-07-2007, 11:16 PM   #16
kg0208
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Lazyness isn't enough to reduce punch resistance enough to get starched by guys whom are not even on the level of top 10 ATG punchers. And on that note, how does he beat these great punchers, whom also have the proper skill to deliver it right on his jaw.

His jaw is far from china, but it sure is crackable and crackable by a murderous hitter, a prime Mike Tyson driving Lennox backwards would certainly do the trick.
If his chin is china, how did he survive hard shots from harder punchers than Rahman and McCall?

I can answer your question easily. Any fighter can be KO'd at HW if they don't seem the punch coming. When Lewis is lazy, he doesn't train as hard and his reflexes, movement, coordination and everything else suffers. Then he gets caught.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

I don't think Prime Tyson drives Lennox Back. I think Prime Tyson tries to for a few rounds, then when Lewis gets his measure, wears him down and stops him.

Prime Holyfield has a better shot at beating Lewis than Tyson.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

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Originally Posted by kg0208
If his chin is china, how did he survive hard shots from harder punchers than Rahman and McCall?

I can answer your question easily. Any fighter can be KO'd at HW if they don't seem the punch coming. When Lewis is lazy, he doesn't train as hard and his reflexes, movement, coordination and everything else suffers. Then he gets caught.
Maybe read my post again, I clearly stated "his chin is far from china, but sure is crackable". And I meant it in crackable ways where a truly hard chinned fighter is not, and this is why the ATG punchers will beat him.

And you backed up my statement, his movement, reflexes and coordination all served his defence, which stopped him from getting laid out by better punchers than Rahman and McCall... he never faced a puncher in the level of a peak Tyson however, Tua has the power but lacks the ability and skill to set the shots up in a way that Tyson would reach out and clip Lewis.

Lewis being the number 1 head to head is truly an absurd thought.

Liston is even a superior choice, or another cliche in Ali, or even a peak Tyson for that matter.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

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Originally Posted by kg0208
I don't think Prime Tyson drives Lennox Back. I think Prime Tyson tries to for a few rounds, then when Lewis gets his measure, wears him down and stops him.

Prime Holyfield has a better shot at beating Lewis than Tyson.
Then how did Tua drive Lewis back at times in their fight? He's maybe a 3rd of a prime Tyson's skill and a 4th of his speed and tenacity.

Tyson drove Holmes back and stopped him in 4, a past prime Holmes but still a very solid Holmes, he could easily do the same to Lennox Lewis.

Tyson/Lewis is easy pickings for Tyson, I don't understand how you think Lewis will wear him down and stop him, let alone make it out of the first 5 rounds with a guy who has a complete stylistic advantage over Lennox.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Maybe read my post again, I clearly stated "his chin is far from china, but sure is crackable". And I meant it in crackable ways where a truly hard chinned fighter is not, and this is why the ATG punchers will beat him.
Agreed. Every boxer's chin is crackable, you gotta be crazy to think the Lewis who was knocked into tomorrow by one shot in TKO losses isn't.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

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Originally Posted by BobDigi5060
Agreed. Every boxer's chin is crackable, you gotta be crazy to think the Lewis who was knocked into tomorrow by one shot in TKO losses isn't.
Sure, most boxers chins are crackable in the standard way, but some weaker than others, thus the idea of rating and checking chins. Lewis' chin cannot compare to Tyson's and Holyfields, or Bowe's for that matter, all took bombs in ways that Lewis was able to avoid.

Lewis actually shows his superior skill in comparison to his contemporaries in becoming an ATG with a fairly weak chin, this is not a bash on him... the idea though is that the other top 10 ATG's at their peak have the ability to get the right shot on the button to end the fight, this would include a young, explosive Mike Tyson who had the murderous power to starch him flat.

Holmes was TKO'd against Tyson, Lewis would be KO'd, there is quite a difference between the two.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:00 AM   #22
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDigi5060
Agreed. Every boxer's chin is crackable, you gotta be crazy to think the Lewis who was knocked into tomorrow by one shot in TKO losses isn't.
Exactly. It is absurd to assert that Lewis, who was laid out by two second-rate fighters, wouldn't be vulnerable to having exactly the same thing happen against some of the ATG punchers in the division's history.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Maybe read my post again, I clearly stated "his chin is far from china, but sure is crackable". And I meant it in crackable ways where a truly hard chinned fighter is not, and this is why the ATG punchers will beat him.

And you backed up my statement, his movement, reflexes and coordination all served his defence, which stopped him from getting laid out by better punchers than Rahman and McCall... he never faced a puncher in the level of a peak Tyson however, Tua has the power but lacks the ability and skill to set the shots up in a way that Tyson would reach out and clip Lewis.

Lewis being the number 1 head to head is truly an absurd thought.

Liston is even a superior choice, or another cliche in Ali, or even a peak Tyson for that matter.
It's absurd for you to write off one of the great champions of all time simply because you feel that his chin won't hold up. I happen to feel that it will.

And I didn't back up your statement. I only backed up your statement if I agree with you on the skill level of the fighters. Tyson certainly lacked the skill to reach out and stop Douglas. Is it absurd to think that Lewis couldn't have duplicated Douglas' feat? No...its not.

I don't particularly care what other choices people make. No one asked me to give them someone else's choice.

And I don't need to re-read your post. Nearly every great fighter in histories chin is crackable now isn't it? Tyson's sure was. So was Listons apparently.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:12 AM   #24
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Sure, most boxers chins are crackable in the standard way, but some weaker than others, thus the idea of rating and checking chins. Lewis' chin cannot compare to Tyson's and Holyfields, or Bowe's for that matter, all took bombs in ways that Lewis was able to avoid.

Lewis actually shows his superior skill in comparison to his contemporaries in becoming an ATG with a fairly weak chin, this is not a bash on him... the idea though is that the other top 10 ATG's at their peak have the ability to get the right shot on the button to end the fight, this would include a young, explosive Mike Tyson who had the murderous power to starch him flat.

Holmes was TKO'd against Tyson, Lewis would be KO'd, there is quite a difference between the two.
The idea is that Lewis has enough skill and size to get to someone like Tyson before Tyson gets to him.

Klitscho certainly landed bombs on his chin. And Tua made Lewis go backwards because Lewis was moving away. Tua was ALOT bigger and stronger than Tyson. Tyson was 215....not 240.

It's utterly amazing how you view your opinion as fact. It's ridiculous that you play off speculation in such a manner.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:14 AM   #25
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

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My pick...Lennox Lewis, im sure you have heard it before but i just see him dominating in head to head, he was so good at searching and destroying. Now if we are doing favorites, id go with either Iron Mike, Joe Frazier, Wlad, or Holyfield....But im just talking who i think does best in most head to head matchups with other ATGs.
I pick Lewis too. Followed by Ali.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:26 AM   #26
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

1. Holmes-Smartest fighter with the best Jab
2. Ali-Just because
3. Foreman-Perfect size. Would have KO'd Tyson
4 Tyson-Most intimidating
5 Joe Louis-Fantastic Timing
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

Because in most of Foremans fights, he wasn't a wild swinger. Foreman was actually a counterpuncher who would wait for his opponents to attack and catch them coming in. His timing was excellent. Tysons biggest strength was his intimidation factor. In the 80's and early 90's, Tysons opponents were already beaten before they entered the ring because they were scared. Foreman won't be scared. Foreman also has the strength to tie Tyson up and move him around the ring. A guy like Foreman can break Tysons spirit, as well as his jaw, and I think foreman would do that to Tyson.
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:36 AM   #28
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

1. Ali
2. Tyson
3. Louis
4. Lewis
5. Foreman

number 3 and 4 i kept going back and forth, but came to the conclusion that Louis' unbelievable ability to finish a fighter and also make a comeback just barely makes me take him over Lewis.
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:37 AM   #29
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

Joseph Louis would beat them all
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: Opinion: Greatest Head to Head Heavyweight ATG.

Ali is my pick.
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