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Old 08-08-2007, 12:16 PM   #1
McGrain
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Default Improve Ali?

What would you do to improve the greatest? Deliver your ideas for what you would improve about him in this thread, and tell us what kind of fighter you would have on your hands if those improvements were for real.

As much as you like or one thing in particular that you think would benefit him the most.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Punching power of Foreman.
Make him punch to the body.

Yeh....thats pretty much it.....that would have made him undefeatable until the age of 40 or so...
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Well, Ali was a "quick" type so a raw strength à la Foreman wouldn't not apply here.
I would say the power of Tyson would fit him the most and he would be really close to perfection.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

From a stylistic standpoint I would develop more of a classical defence. Make him into a sort of super Larry Holmes.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

One punch power and a lot better boxing skills, but then he wouldn't be Ali :]
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
Which version?
Can't start a thread on Ali without answering this question...

Either one, whatever people like.


Quote:
The pre-exile Ali could need a bit more power but not too much because it would slow his handspeed.
Isn't there a danger than more power would draw him into fights a little to early for him to take advantage of his real powers? Generalship, speed, smarts etc.?
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
From a stylistic standpoint I would develop more of a classical defence. Make him into a sort of super Larry Holmes.

What a fighter that would be right enough.

How do you think peak Dempsey would fair against your Frankenstein?
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Make him develop those body punching skills, develop his left hook more.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan1
Make him develop those body punching skills, develop his left hook more.

This is my favourite so far.

I'd also like to see Ali develop his uppercut. Jab aside, Ali's left really wasn't great; that would be the single thing i'd improve.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Left hook to the body. I know it would leave him open to a counter but.....
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Old 08-09-2007, 03:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Make him less vulnerable to the left hook. Wow, it was scary sometimes how easily and often he got nailed with that punch.

Yeh, sure, it was the downside of the risk he took by committing to a trick that usually paid off for him. He'd twist from the waist slightly, ready to toss his quick right hand over the opponent's left shoulder, either as a counter or lead. He used it brilliantly against Foreman. That's how he knocked out Zora Folley who, up 'til then, had been giving Ali hell. And, dammit, whether people wanna believe it or not, that's how he knocked down - legitimately - Liston in the rematch. Sure, Sonny could have gotten back up if he wasn't so damned scared of either Ali, the mob or both. But Ali's quick right over Liston's left *did* knock him down. Leotis Martin did exactly the same thing to Liston.

Rant over. Forgive me.

Anyway, for some reason, Ali was vulnerable to the left hook while he didn't get hit so hard or often by the right.
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Old 08-09-2007, 04:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
What would you do to improve the greatest? Deliver your ideas for what you would improve about him in this thread, and tell us what kind of fighter you would have on your hands if those improvements were for real.

As much as you like or one thing in particular that you think would benefit him the most.
McGrain this is a very tough question for me because to improve Ali, I would be tempted to eliminate all the unorthodox things i.e. pulling back from punches, keeping his hands low etc. However, as we know most of the things he did 'wrong' contributed to his greatness as they worked for him.

The only thing I would say that would improve Ali would be to add explosive power to his lightning punches. If he was able to have this and retain all his speed, then I believe he would have no peer in history and be impossible to beat head to head. He would be pound for pound the best fighter ever.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
McGrain this is a very tough question for me because to improve Ali, I would be tempted to eliminate all the unorthodox things i.e. pulling back from punches, keeping his hands low etc. However, as we know most of the things he did 'wrong' contributed to his greatness as they worked for him.

The only thing I would say that would improve Ali would be to add explosive power to his lightning punches. If he was able to have this and retain all his speed, then I believe he would have no peer in history and be impossible to beat head to head. He would be pound for pound the best fighter ever.
On top of that and this is one that a lot of people know in the back of their minds but it takes something to jog their memory ... IMO, one of Ali's biggest downfalls (forget questions of technique and all that deeply trod avenue of discourse) was the fact that he was an inconsistent trainer for fights. You can see it especially post-Exile ... oft too out of shape, too unmotivated for fights ... if Ali could bring the same intensity and sheer brilliance of performance seen in the Williams and Terrell fights and not try to clown his way through fights, which saw him getting caught by the likes of a Cooper, or behind on the cards versus the likes of a Lyle, Ali would've dominated his fights in much more commanding fashion.

Add explosive power to his punches ala a 160 - 168 lbs RJJ, retaining his hand speed of course, and add 100% pure dedication to his training and ring performance and you have a fighter that I'd be even more willing to state beats every other HW in history at his absolute best.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

anything i can really think of that could have a chance of improving Ali post layoff counter-acts the skills and technique he already used, for instance when i saw this i first though maybe a bit more power but like someone else said it would play too heavily on his speed, so nah i can't really think of anything to improve him..
EDIT: Wait, maybe some dirty elbowing and low blow tactics
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Improve Ali?

More power and more boddy punching.
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