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Old 08-09-2007, 09:28 AM   #1
PowerPuncher
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Default Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Lewis-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike may have taken an aging Lewis but Lewis may have been too slick

Vitali-Ike Ibeauchi - I don't think Vitalis lean beack defense would work well against Ikes pressure

Wlad-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike KO, too much pressure and power

Holmes-Foreman - Holmes UD and a much greater legacy

Foreman-Tyson - Tyson beats both old and prime Foreman for me, far better faster boxer.

Frazier-Norton - Frazier by KO but not for certain

Frazier-Shavers - Probably Frazier KO but Shavers has the punchers chance

Lyle-Frazier - Probably Frazier UD

Liston-Frazier - Liston KO, although Frazier may have taken the past prime version

Cleveland Williams-Patterson

Dempsey-Wills - impossible to say without seeing Wills

Jack Johnson-Wills - see above

Walcott-Archie Moore - hmmmmm, Walcott by KO
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

nice thread. how about Louis-Frazier?
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

You missed the biggest one of all: Byrd vs. Ruiz!!!!!
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight
Regardless of the length of Bowe's prime, I think he would have beaten Lewis.
Even though he acted like a coward and repeatedly ducked Lewis. Had a prime Bowe and Lewis crossed paths bowe would have had too much for Lewis.

I'm anticipating people saying Bowe was stopped by Lewis in the amatuers. However, the level Bowe was at when he turned up to fight Moses in 92 - He had the tools to beat most heavyweights including Lewis.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabrese
I think Bowe was somewhat over rated.
I'd agree with that. In reality, Bowe is rated on the strength of just one fight, the win over Holyfield in their first fight. I guess you could say the trilogy looking at it from a wider perspective but it's really that first fight that defined Bowe, and therefore his legacy.

BTW, why is ' Last edited by Heavyrighthand : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 PM.' appearing at the foot of this post?

Last edited by Heavyrighthand; 04-23-2006 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Lewis-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike may have taken an aging Lewis but Lewis may have been too slick

Vitali-Ike Ibeauchi - I don't think Vitalis lean beack defense would work well against Ikes pressure

Wlad-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike KO, too much pressure and power
With you so far

Quote:
Holmes-Foreman - Holmes UD and a much greater legacy
Wouldn't care to bet money on it either way. I think that if Foreman had Holmes hurt like Shavers did he would not let him off the hook.

Quote:
Foreman-Tyson - Tyson beats both old and prime Foreman for me, far better faster boxer.
I certainly think Tyson would be too much for the older Foreman.

Frazier-Norton - Frazier by KO but not for certain

Quote:
Frazier-Shavers - Probably Frazier KO but Shavers has the punchers chance
Shavers early KO. I don't think it would be as competitive as people think.

Quote:
Lyle-Frazier - Probably Frazier UD
I like Frazier inside the distence.

Quote:
Liston-Frazier - Liston KO, although Frazier may have taken the past prime version
Agreed

Quote:
Cleveland Williams-Patterson
I would expect Patterson to take Williams with the right fight plan.

Quote:
Dempsey-Wills - impossible to say without seeing Wills
It sounds like Dempsey had the right style to beat Wills.

Quote:
Jack Johnson-Wills - see above
As Johnson declined there should theoreticaly be a crosover point where Wills takes it.

Quote:
Walcott-Archie Moore - hmmmmm, Walcott by KO
Verry hard to say because you couldn't sparr for either of them.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
I'd agree with that. In reality, Bowe is rated on the strength of just one fight, the win over Holyfield in their first fight. I guess you could say the trilogy looking at it from a wider perspective but it's really that first fight that defined Bowe, and therefore his legacy.

BTW, why is ' Last edited by Heavyrighthand : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 PM.' appearing at the foot of this post?
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Lewis-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike may have taken an aging Lewis but Lewis may have been too slick

Vitali-Ike Ibeauchi - I don't think Vitalis lean beack defense would work well against Ikes pressure

Wlad-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike KO, too much pressure and power

Holmes-Foreman - Holmes UD and a much greater legacy

Foreman-Tyson - Tyson beats both old and prime Foreman for me, far better faster boxer.

Frazier-Norton - Frazier by KO but not for certain

Frazier-Shavers - Probably Frazier KO but Shavers has the punchers chance

Lyle-Frazier - Probably Frazier UD

Liston-Frazier - Liston KO, although Frazier may have taken the past prime version

Cleveland Williams-Patterson

Dempsey-Wills - impossible to say without seeing Wills

Jack Johnson-Wills - see above

Walcott-Archie Moore - hmmmmm, Walcott by KO
Well, I assume the way the question is asked, we are talking actual matchups as they would have historically occurred, so:

1. Liston-Frazier--this match would not have been made until 1969 or so. Liston was well past it and lost to Martin about that time. I don't see him beating Frazier.

2. Holmes-Foreman--I would see this as a pick em fight in the late seventies, with Foreman's power and ability to cut off the ring giving him a good chance of bashing Holmes down before his poor stamina betrays him.
In the nineties, I like Foreman.

3. Dempsey-Wills--I agree it is pretty difficult to pick without seeing more of Wills. Of what we know, Wills did defeat a fighter something like Dempsey in Langford, who was also a fighter at Dempsey's level. I can't see any of the big men Dempsey defeated as being close to Wills, who blew away Fulton, possibly the best of the big men at the time.
My guess would be Wills having the edge from 1919 to 1922 or so with Dempsey more likely to win as the years passed.

4. Johnson-Wills--Johnson was the better fighter, over all, I think, but this match would not have been made until probably 1915 or so. At that point or later, I would take Wills.

5. I think Patterson takes Williams at any point.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.
So true Lewis never beat a prime anybody and got knocked out by two decent heayweights. The 92 Bowe would kill the skinny Lewis.
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.
Lennox has lots of legacy fights

Rudduck - top4 in the world destroyed
Holyfield - linear champ, past prime but beaten solidly twice
Briggs - linear sort of
Golota - the man who retired Bowe
Tua - the new Tyson? Handled
Tyson - still Tyson and still a threat
McCall/Rahman - revenge wins
Grant/Vitali - young pretenders and so called next HW champs.

Those were all massive fights with a plethora of styles and maybe some were more dangerous than a younger Holyfield. Older Holyfield had just destroyed Tyson and was stronger than ever too.

As for Lennox-Bowe - Lennox by KO5, Lennox big shots would get their first on the outside and Bowe wouldn't have the chin for them. Bowe never a faced a puncher of Lennoxs magnitude
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
btw. you lost the greatest match-up out of these should have happened.

Jim Jeffries - Jack Johnson in 1904 or 1905.
Thought of that but it did happen. Johnson UD
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Carson
So true Lewis never beat a prime anybody and got knocked out by two decent heayweights. The 92 Bowe would kill the skinny Lewis.
Much like 1988 eh...
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:54 PM   #13
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

The one I would of liked to of seen is a 59 Liston/Marciano match up...
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Old 08-09-2007, 03:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

In 1959, Marciano would have been pushing 37 or so by the time. WAY pass his prime for the style the Rock used. It would have been VERY one sided, I belive Liston stops the Rock in 2 or 3 rounds. Marciano retire at the right time. He was close of loseing his powers, He already lost his hand speed as the ****ell and Moore fights show. I dont think Marciano could have goten to 59 unbeating.
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Old 08-09-2007, 04:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
In 1959, Marciano would have been pushing 37 or so by the time. WAY pass his prime for the style the Rock used. It would have been VERY one sided, I belive Liston stops the Rock in 2 or 3 rounds. Marciano retire at the right time. He was close of loseing his powers, He already lost his hand speed as the ****ell and Moore fights show. I dont think Marciano could have goten to 59 unbeating.
I agree, but still would of liked to of seen it, Louis did the job for Marciano, perhaps Marciano should of done it for Liston.
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