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View Poll Results: 1995 Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?
BOWE 16 21.62%
LEWIS 58 78.38%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2007, 05:45 PM   #31
mr. magoo
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

Quote:
. It would have been interesting to see what would've happened if he fought better opposition than only Holyfield and Golota.
Bowe actually fought better opposition than people give him credit for. He defeated many of the division's young prospects such as Gonzalez, Donald, Hide, and Seldon. He also beat top rated pierre Coetzer, as well as veteran, yet well trained versions of Tony Tubbs and Tyrell Biggs.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Bowe actually fought better opposition than people give him credit for. He defeated many of the division's young prospects such as Gonzalez, Donald, Hide, and Seldon. He also beat top rated pierre Coetzer, as well as veteran, yet well trained versions of Tony Tubbs and Tyrell Biggs.
Third tier hws

And an old Tubbs in alot of minds was robbed.

The only second Tier HW he fought was Golota who ****d him twice and the only first tier HW he fought was Holy in which he narrowly won the Trilogy.

Lewis
Tyson
Morrison
Mercer
90s Holmes
90s Foreman
Moorer
Ruddock
90s Bruno
Briggs
Tua
Ibeabuchi
Golota
Holyfield

Those where the first and second tier fighters of the 90s

Bowe only fought two of them.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:26 PM   #33
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by godking
Any version of Lewis beats Bowe.

Bowe was outjabbed by anyone who threw a jab at him and ducked every pucher of the era in an era with alot of punchers.

Bowe also had NO defense and could be hit at will this bodes bad against a puncher like Lewis .
Herbie Hide was apparently a pretty big puncher, who actually stunned Bowe a few times, but Bowe annihilated him. Having said that, I always thought that Bowe was a much more polished fighter than was Lewis early in their careers. If they had fought around 1992, 1993, I think Bowe would have outclassed him. However, as Lewis improved, Bowe regressed. In 1995 or anytime thereafter, Lewis would outclass Bowe.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by godking
owe had HORRIBLE defense and was outjabbed by anyone who threw a jab at him even in holyfield 1 his ''masterpiece'' Every time Holy threw a jab he hit him. had Holyfield followed the fight plan instead of brawling with him he would probably have decisioned him.

The only thing exceptional Bowe had at any point in his carreer where his infighting skills.

''exceptional'' big men dont get 50 % connection rates against them by Journeymen .

There is a reason thate Bowe ducked most every puncher in a puncher heavy era.

The only big man with skill he took on ****d him twice only to lose by DQ.
First of all, "infighting skills" are strong indicators of technical aptitude. Bowe had much more than that.

Second of all, your excessive use of hyperbole make any debate with you difficult.

Third of all, you are simply wrong.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?



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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Please. I see Bowe-Golota I & II completes your collection.
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

Once Lewis has Steward he became an animal. There were some fights where he was still learning i.e. Mercer but ultimately Lewis lost VERY few rounds. With Steward he became arguably the most complete heavyweight ever and lost very few rounds. He wasn't invincible but he could be as dominant as ANY heavyweight - Louis, Ali, you name him.
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
First of all, "infighting skills" are strong indicators of technical aptitude. Bowe had much more than that.

Second of all, your excessive use of hyperbole make any debate with you difficult.

Third of all, you are simply wrong.
What was your opinion of the olymipic final bout?

Lewis did have Bowe on ***** street
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Old 08-12-2007, 04:55 AM   #38
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
First of all, "infighting skills" are strong indicators of technical aptitude. Bowe had much more than that.

Second of all, your excessive use of hyperbole make any debate with you difficult.

Third of all, you are simply wrong.
Infighting skills are ONE indicator of technical aptitude .Lewis surpassed him in all the other areas like jab power speed movement ect.

And how can you you claim that a guy as easy to hit as Bowe was was the most ''technically gifted'' giant.

Bowe was a great infighter for a big man thats it .

I would like to see try to adress Bowes horrible defense and inability to handle a jab.
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:50 AM   #39
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

I just rewatched Bowe-Holyfield I and sorry but i just don't see that Sugar Ray Leonard stuff you're talking about.

Yes, he has great infighting skills, but on the outside he is totally helpless. He can't get out of the way of Holyfields jabs and right hand leads, and barely lands his own jab; Holyfield steps out of the way most of the time. For some brawling reason, from midway round 2 on Holyfield was content just getting on the inside and staying there which played perfect in Bowe's hands because that's where he can control Holyfield. Every time Holyfield goes back to jabbing from a distance, Bowe isn't offering much in return and by round 5 he's just leaning in to get Holyfield on the inside.

And even in this peak fight, Holyfield had a 55% connect percentage and just didn't seem to be able to miss him. Especially straight punches from the outside landed almost effortless. There are two key factors in this fight:

-Holyfield fights a stupid fight by not staying on the outside by brawling on the inside.
-Bowe's defense is leaky and he catches a big number of shots, but the real difference is that he can take 3 punches from Holyfield to land 1 or 2 of his own half and still come fresher out of the exchange because of the weight or power difference. Holyfield simply couldn't hurt Bowe, he hit him plenty but ended up tired himself while Bowe came up stronger.


Lewis would be staying on the outside, outjabbing him and landing that hard straight right hand which Bowe could hardly defend against and he won't have to fear Bowe's straight right hand because he barely had one. I also think Lewis is on par with Bowe in infighting, just that he didn't lean forward and try to make it an infight like Bowe all the time. Lewis took Mavrovic, Tyson, Holyfield, Klitschko and Grant apart with right and left uppercuts.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:28 AM   #40
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I just rewatched Bowe-Holyfield I and sorry but i just don't see that Sugar Ray Leonard stuff you're talking about.

Yes, he has great infighting skills, but on the outside he is totally helpless. He can't get out of the way of Holyfields jabs and right hand leads, and barely lands his own jab; Holyfield steps out of the way most of the time. For some brawling reason, from midway round 2 on Holyfield was content just getting on the inside and staying there which played perfect in Bowe's hands because that's where he can control Holyfield. Every time Holyfield goes back to jabbing from a distance, Bowe isn't offering much in return and by round 5 he's just leaning in to get Holyfield on the inside.

And even in this peak fight, Holyfield had a 55% connect percentage and just didn't seem to be able to miss him. Especially straight punches from the outside landed almost effortless. There are two key factors in this fight:

-Holyfield fights a stupid fight by not staying on the outside by brawling on the inside.
-Bowe's defense is leaky and he catches a big number of shots, but the real difference is that he can take 3 punches from Holyfield to land 1 or 2 of his own half and still come fresher out of the exchange because of the weight or power difference. Holyfield simply couldn't hurt Bowe, he hit him plenty but ended up tired himself while Bowe came up stronger.


Lewis would be staying on the outside, outjabbing him and landing that hard straight right hand which Bowe could hardly defend against and he won't have to fear Bowe's straight right hand because he barely had one. I also think Lewis is on par with Bowe in infighting, just that he didn't lean forward and try to make it an infight like Bowe all the time. Lewis took Mavrovic, Tyson, Holyfield, Klitschko and Grant apart with right and left uppercuts.
Exactly

Like you i fail to see the god who walked like a man that Bowe was in in the first Holyfield fight.

Had Holyfield stuck with the plan to box on the outside he would have won a decision.

Bowe a man with practically no defense and who could'nt handle ajab against a puncher with a ramrod jab like Lewis.

Bowe would last for 8 rounds and thats only because of his chin.

Lewis would litterally hit him at will and unlike in the Holyfield fights Bowe cant just shake off Lewis punches.
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:16 AM   #41
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

In all 3 Holyfield-Bowe fights, it's quite notable (and indeed quite shocking) that almost all the rounds Holyfield win are when he's staying on the outside and beating Bowe in a jabbing contest.

The second fight is just the one where Holyfield sticks consistantly to that rather than being tempted into a brawl (where I feel Steward's presence in his corner helped to keep that message strong).

How can this be? The Bowe of the first Holyfield always, especially by certain contrary US journos (usually to attack Lewis, Holyfield et al), gets held up as a pure fighter that destroys on the inside yet dances and jabs on the outside.

Considering that Bowe of '92 still shows exactly the same flaws of plodding, straight-ahead movement rather than intelligent cutting off of the ring, lack of a straight right, giving up his jab in favour of big punches, having an even battle of the jabs with a guy with a much shorter range than himself, and generally looking to use his size and power to overcome an opponent whilst leaving himself wide open for counter-punches, I would comfortably pick a fair number of fighters in history to knock out Bowe '92 in pretty short order.

Holyfield himself was close to knocking Bowe out in all 3 of their fights.
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:05 PM   #42
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

To sum up; Bowe can't get out of the way of right hands and Lewis has one of the best overhand rights in the history of the sport. Offhand I can't think of another match-up between 2 skilled heavyweights where the main weakness of one fighter is the main strength of another.
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:13 PM   #43
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

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Originally Posted by Nemesis
What was your opinion of the olymipic final bout?

Lewis did have Bowe on ***** street
Bowe was a Futch-less amateur. That fight is not as relevant as you may be implying. The psychological effect of it may have come into play however and may be part of the reason behind why the fight never happened. The other was that Rock Newman was a jerk.
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:19 PM   #44
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

"Sigh." All this Bowe-bashing requires me to dig through my tapes to '92. That I will do tonight and will then engage one and all Lewis apologists from across the pond in a debate -albeit domani.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: 1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

I am a big time Bowe fan, and I think Bowe gives Lewis a lot of problems. He has a very good jab and reach that would trouble Lewis and keep him from staying on the outside just throwing the jab and racking up easy points. Bowe was also incredibly durable and it would take a lot of big punches for him to lose by stoppage. Bowe was also an amazingly effective inside fighter for a big guy, better than Lewis.

That being said, Lewis has the clearly better punching power, and is bigger and stronger. He also has better defense. Bowe had trouble with big fighters with good jabs (Golota even though he was shot, and Tony Tubbs) and Lewis had the perfect style to beat Bowe. Bowe wasn't a big puncher and Lewis wouldn't be clowning around like against McCall and Rahman and get caught. He would view Bowe as a tough and legitimate oppontant.

I think that while Bowe gives Lewis a lot of trouble and picks up rounds, he loses by UD 7-5. This is the peak Bowe that beat Holyfield in their first fight.
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