Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-21-2007, 09:03 PM   #1
joe33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Jack johnson

Sorry dont want to go over old ground,but having read this from wiki-

"The fight soon became a symbolic battleground for the races. The media, eager for a "Great White Hope", found a champion for their racism and bigotry in Jeffries. He said, "I am going into this fight for the sole purpose of proving that a white man is better than a Negro."A furor was created at the fight, as a ringside band played, "All c**s look alike to me" and promoters encouraged an all-white crowd to chant "Kill the n****r""
............I have to say how much i admire the man(johnson).I love jeffries,but feel he was not thinking right when he took on johnson,to much fake pride bullshit going on,to many dodgy people talked him round,he had not been fighting in 6 years,and had lost shed loads of weight,he was mad to fight the guy.
Can anyone think of a fight where one man has ever faced such raw hate before?,for hells sake the band and the crowd were chanting there sheer hate at him,how the hell did he overcome that shit,and still fight so well? i know foreman got shit against ali but he was hardly gonna be killed was he,it seriously pales when one thinks,they were still lynching black people for nothing else bar there skin at that time,what a awesome guy,great fighter and man he was as brave as a lion.
***i also know that wiki is not always correct about stuff,to many people can change things,but i believe this was a near correct account of what happened***
 Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-21-2007, 09:36 PM   #2
rekcutnevets
Black Sash
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: InYourMouth, NC
Posts: 6,552
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Jack Johnson was one of the bravest men I've ever read about. I have rated Johnson as my 3rd best all time heavyweight for some time now, and I'll admit that it may be because of his social importance.

Johnson had established himself as the best black heavyweight in the world, before establishing himself as the best heavyweight. I just don't know if I would consider his level of competition as good as champions from other eras.

It is strange, but my top three heavyweights are also the most socially significant in my opinion. I hope it is only coincidental. Maybe it is. I think Johnson was more significant than the other two, and I have him 3rd. I think Louis was more significant than Ali, and I have him 2nd. Ali is ranked 1st on my list.

I don't think that Louis, or Ali, are far behind in social importance. They both played great rolls in this regard. They also showed a lot of bravery themselves.

It is just that Johnson was before them. Louis and Ali lived in dangerous times for black people, but Johnson's time was even more so. The way Johnson did things his way, without hiding, was indeed brave. I think he gets a bad rap by some for further dividing the public. The public was already divided. The public needed someone, with Johnson's **** you attitude, to stand up to the masses. To let them know that he was in no way beneath anyone. I think that people needed a big wake up call from someone willing to stand up and defy their racial intolerance publically in a way never done before. That bravery set the tone for some others to believe in themselves. This let some know that they could prove that they were not inferior, and they didn't have to live as a kiss ass.
rekcutnevets is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2007, 10:13 PM   #3
mr. magoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 13,755
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

These are both nice posts gentleman. I to like Jack Johnson as a historical figure and great champion. Johnson certainly could have won the world's heavyweight crown much earlier had it not been for his skin. He was however, considered by many as a true heavyweight champ, reguardless of only holding the colored world title. As Joe already pointed out, he could very legitimately be criticized for the level of his competition, when being compared to greats of other eras. He at least, however fought the very best that his period had to offer, and don't think that the white politicians didn't do everthing they could to find someone to dethrone him. Johnson was a true hero, not only for African Americans, but for anyone who truly cherished great icons and significant points in history.

Last edited by mr. magoo; 06-21-2007 at 10:17 PM.
mr. magoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2007, 02:35 AM   #4
Sizzle
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 647
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

What made Louis so socially important?
Sizzle is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2007, 06:47 AM   #5
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
What made Louis so socially important?
A black champion the whites got behind and accepted too
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2007, 08:09 AM   #6
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Johnsons comp is very underrated, the pre-championship reign is excellent.
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2007, 08:16 AM   #7
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,326
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
What made Louis so socially important?
He more than any other athlete was responsible for the destruction of the colour bar in boxing and other sports.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2007, 08:21 AM   #8
Luigi1985
Cane Corso
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,326
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Johnsons comp is very underrated, the pre-championship reign is excellent.

Exactly!
Luigi1985 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 03:52 PM   #9
ThinBlack
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,384
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
Jack Johnson was one of the bravest men I've ever read about. I have rated Johnson as my 3rd best all time heavyweight for some time now, and I'll admit that it may be because of his social importance.

Johnson had established himself as the best black heavyweight in the world, before establishing himself as the best heavyweight. I just don't know if I would consider his level of competition as good as champions from other eras.

It is strange, but my top three heavyweights are also the most socially significant in my opinion. I hope it is only coincidental. Maybe it is. I think Johnson was more significant than the other two, and I have him 3rd. I think Louis was more significant than Ali, and I have him 2nd. Ali is ranked 1st on my list.

I don't think that Louis, or Ali, are far behind in social importance. They both played great rolls in this regard. They also showed a lot of bravery themselves.

It is just that Johnson was before them. Louis and Ali lived in dangerous times for black people, but Johnson's time was even more so. The way Johnson did things his way, without hiding, was indeed brave. I think he gets a bad rap by some for further dividing the public. The public was already divided. The public needed someone, with Johnson's **** you attitude, to stand up to the masses. To let them know that he was in no way beneath anyone. I think that people needed a big wake up call from someone willing to stand up and defy their racial intolerance publically in a way never done before. That bravery set the tone for some others to believe in themselves. This let some know that they could prove that they were not inferior, and they didn't have to live as a kiss ass.
Exactly! It's a shame he had to go out the way he did (ironically, not to far from where I live at.).
ThinBlack is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 03:57 PM   #10
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Johnsons comp is very underrated, the pre-championship reign is excellent.
What seasoned true heavyweights with good records did he beat?
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 04:14 PM   #11
Russell
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,535
vCash: 118
Default Re: Jack johnson

I don't know how you can beat the living shit out of Sam Langford and have a terrible resume like some people claim.
Russell is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 04:39 PM   #12
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
I don't know how you can beat the living shit out of Sam Langford and have a terrible resume like some people claim.
Not terrible, not even bad or mediocre. Johnson was a great, watershed fighter, who mercifully, thankfully changed the division.

However, beating a welterweight should not be the high point in your resume to be considered a great heavyweight.
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 04:49 PM   #13
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,868
vCash: 500
Thumbs up Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
What seasoned true heavyweights with good records did he beat?

Stop it buddy... You also have him in your top 10 HW of all time... That should say how could is competition was...
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 05:06 PM   #14
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Stop it buddy... You also have him in your top 10 HW of all time... That should say how could is competition was...
Two ways of look at it. He beat what his era offered... up to a point. He never fought Langford when Langford was near heavy, when McVea was near an accomplished pro, or even offered Jeanette for a proper title shot. That said, he still beat them all at some stage, and bagged the only version of Jeffries he could get. He stumbled with Hart and was less than overwhelming against O'Brien and Johnson. Still, he was the man for the better part of a decade.

On the other hand, what his era offered at heavyweight was slim****ingpickens... Hart, Burns, Ketchell, O'Brien, Ross, Jim Johnson, a shell of Jim Jeffries... that list does not inspire one wax profound.

Obviously, on my list I give more credit to the first perspective than the second. But if someone is going to say his resume stacks up well against later heavyweight eras, yes, I will bristle.
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 05:14 PM   #15
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,666
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe33 View Post
Sorry dont want to go over old ground,but having read this from wiki-

"The fight soon became a symbolic battleground for the races. The media, eager for a "Great White Hope", found a champion for their racism and bigotry in Jeffries. He said, "I am going into this fight for the sole purpose of proving that a white man is better than a Negro."A furor was created at the fight, as a ringside band played, "All c**s look alike to me" and promoters encouraged an all-white crowd to chant "Kill the n****r""
............I have to say how much i admire the man(johnson).I love jeffries,but feel he was not thinking right when he took on johnson,to much fake pride bullshit going on,to many dodgy people talked him round,he had not been fighting in 6 years,and had lost shed loads of weight,he was mad to fight the guy.
Can anyone think of a fight where one man has ever faced such raw hate before?,for hells sake the band and the crowd were chanting there sheer hate at him,how the hell did he overcome that shit,and still fight so well? i know foreman got shit against ali but he was hardly gonna be killed was he,it seriously pales when one thinks,they were still lynching black people for nothing else bar there skin at that time,what a awesome guy,great fighter and man he was as brave as a lion.
***i also know that wiki is not always correct about stuff,to many people can change things,but i believe this was a near correct account of what happened***
There has never been a fighter, ever, that endured what Jack Johnson endured ... it is so common to hear so many rip him but his story is unique ... it is a marvel that he was never assassinated .. people forget that Jack JOhnson was the son of a former slave ... it is truly astonishing ...
he grant is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013