Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2007, 03:04 AM   #1
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,984
vCash: 685
Default Ali vs Marciano II

Who wins a rematch of these two all time greats. Marciano won the first match when he trapped Muhammed Ali on the ropes with a devastating combination and knocked him out.

While it is clear that we had seen the best of Ali by the time of the first fight, he did go into the fight, Known to be blindingly fast but with a question mark over his chin and heart and an ability to get caught as Cooper and banks had done.

In his second career, Ali proved that he was as tough if not tougher than any other fighter to ever lace the gloves. He also proved recuperative powers that were first rate and he demonstrated that he could fight on in the championship rounds.

In the first fight, Ali started strong but Rocky caught up to him. How do they do in the rematch. Same computer but updated data.
Boilermaker is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-10-2007, 08:05 AM   #2
MrSmall
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 73
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Marciano would never KO Ali.
MrSmall is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:10 AM   #3
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,416
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
It would've never happened like that in the first place.

He's talking about the computer fight they had when Ali was out.

What would the same computer make of the thing with new date in place as regards the "second career" Ali described.

Last edited by joeburo; 04-25-2006 at 06:03 PM.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:14 AM   #4
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 6,399
vCash: 2137
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

I never did watch the original 'fight' because I always felt that Ali was set up to lose, no matter what. It was somewhat farcical.

I do think though that no matter what version of Ali showed up, that Marciano had the kind of style that would give him serious problems. Basically, Marciano had the same sort of traits that Frazier did - powerful, relentless, immense heart and stamina, a swarming type of style, great chin, very rugged etc.

Ali was inhumanly tough, but I don't think Marciano neccesarily has to KO him to win. His punch output was freakish and he could outhustle 70's Ali to a decision. Of course cuts would always be a concern against a sharpshooter like Ali, but if anything cuts only spurred Marciano on further.

It could really go either way, but (partly to play devil's advocate) I'll pick Marciano.
fists of fury is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:16 AM   #5
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,416
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury
I never did watch the original 'fight' because I always felt that Ali was set up to lose, no matter what. It was somewhat farcical.

I agree.

There was no way in hell Ali was ever going to win that computer fight.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:19 AM   #6
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,875
vCash: 765
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

They had a second fight on the computer, that came to Britain and Europe, Ali won the decision.
TBooze is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:42 AM   #7
Bad_Intentions
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Miami FL, USA
Posts: 3,688
vCash: 153
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

interesting....
Bad_Intentions is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:46 AM   #8
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,416
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I know what he was talking about, I'm saying no way Marciano beats the first version of Ali either.

But it did on the computer.

I agree with you though.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:46 AM   #9
Lex
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 191
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Why does anyone continue to give any credence to that silly computerized "fight?"

The whole thing hinged on a financial arrangement to help offset Ali's legal expenses after being stripped of his license. And Marciano always had good money sense so he wouldn't have turned it down even if the computer claimed he "lost."

There's no way Marciano beats Ali. Ali would have shredded Marciano's face to ribbons and forced a TKO to save Rocky from permanent eye damage. (Recall that toward the end of his career, Jose Napoles began to cut so badly his eyelid was literally hanging loose in his final bouts against Muniz and Stracey. Ali would inflict the same damage against Marciano.)

No heavyweight in history had more stamina than a prime Ali. If Rocky could go 15 at a pace to the point of exhaustion, Ali would have been able to go 16. No matter the amount of pressure, temperature, humidity, whatever, he always had a little more in the tank than his opponents. And when he needed a rest he controlled the pace. There's little Marciano could have done to force Ali to fight Rocky's game.

The only shot Marciano would have is to KO Ali with a left hook. That was always Ali's vulnerability because of the way he set himself for right hands over the opponent's left shoulder. But Marciano's best punch to the head was a right hand, and Ali wasn't nearly as easy to hit with the right.

Hey, I'm a big Marciano fan. But this is a bad, bad matchup for him. Roland LaStarza was, arguably, the slickest boxer who was in his prime when he faced a prime Marciano (okay, Rocky was always in his prime 'cause he retired before going downhill). LaStarza give Marciano hell in their first fight and did pretty darned well later against a by-then much improved Rocky. But however tough he was for his era, a 5'10", 185 lb. Marciano is not gonna give Ali much trouble.

I would just hope that Ali's mean streak, so prominent during the 1960s against Patterson, Moore, Liston and others wouldn't arise. He could be kinda vicious about tormenting opponents during fights, beating them up without finishing them off. Not one of his more appealing characteristics.
Lex is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 10:01 AM   #10
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 9,485
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

You really never hear anyone call Marciano fast but he did beat many fighters to the punch, once hurt he could flurry to get inside or he could pick his awkward variation of punches,Chopping rights,triple hooks and uppercuts. Marciano was a rythym breaker and this would trouble Ali, I see this fight being a carbon copy of Ali/Frazier 1, when Frazier was at his fittest and prime with the exception that when Marciano had you hurt his 2 fisted attack rarely let you off the hook, I dont know if Ali would have made it out of the 11th round,but if anyone could do it it would be Ali. Remember the fighters who gave Ali the most trouble were fighters with speed, or power of the hook,Marciano had a great double hook(see Harry Matthews fight)Archie Moore) I see this fight getting really interesting from the 9th round on,with Marcianos body shots starting to take there toll and Marciano's fittness coming into play,Ali hitting the canvas but Marciano on his body head,neck and arms,Marciano swollen from flurries but punching every step of the way for a UD or a Late tko stop
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 12:38 PM   #11
groove
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,028
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Peak Ali is a fighter Marciano never came close to fighting. light heavies Moore was old and a declining Charles was his best opponent. Those 2 would be knocked out easy by a peak Ali. They wouldn't do any better than what Bob Foster did against a not as good Ali. Old Louis and Walcott would have no chance against peak Ali. Marciano never fought a great peak fighter - Marciano was the only one that was peak when he fought those great fighters. Ali fought a lot of peak great fighters - Frazier, Foreman, Norton etc. I think peak Foreman would destroy him and i give Frazier the advantage in a match-up.

They changed the computer result to Ali to win in the UK cuz most fans couldn't accept Ali losing Marciano. UK fans knew Ali was in a different class to Marciano. Ali was always very popular in the UK even throughout the 60s - not the same story in the US.
groove is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 01:57 PM   #12
Shake
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 75
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

The idea is flawed to begin with. No-one who can write the code for the computer to compute has enough boxing sense to even approximate reality, while no-one with a high degree of boxing knowledge could write the damn code.

Even if you could fuse Cus D'amato and Stephen Hawking together though, I still don't believe it would ever be credible.
Shake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 01:59 PM   #13
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,875
vCash: 765
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake
The idea is flawed to begin with. No-one who can write the code for the computer to compute has enough boxing sense to even approximate reality, while no-one with a high degree of boxing knowledge could write the damn code.

Even if you could fuse Cus D'amato and Stephen Hawking together though, I still don't believe it would ever be credible.
It was a bit of fun that made The Rock and Louisville lip a bit of money
TBooze is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 02:06 PM   #14
Shake
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 75
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Oh, I understand that. Just strange that some people take it seriously. Can't see how that would work.
Shake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2007, 07:28 PM   #15
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 9,485
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ali vs Marciano II

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove
Peak Ali is a fighter Marciano never came close to fighting. light heavies Moore was old and a declining Charles was his best opponent. Those 2 would be knocked out easy by a peak Ali. They wouldn't do any better than what Bob Foster did against a not as good Ali. Old Louis and Walcott would have no chance against peak Ali. Marciano never fought a great peak fighter - Marciano was the only one that was peak when he fought those great fighters. Ali fought a lot of peak great fighters - Frazier, Foreman, Norton etc. I think peak Foreman would destroy him and i give Frazier the advantage in a match-up.

They changed the computer result to Ali to win in the UK cuz most fans couldn't accept Ali losing Marciano. UK fans knew Ali was in a different class to Marciano. Ali was always very popular in the UK even throughout the 60s - not the same story in the US.
When Frazier was peak he beat Ali,Norton also, Walcott, Charles,Moore would have given Ali at least the same trouble or more than, Cooper,Jones,Mildenburger,Norton,Young, because they were all better fighters
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013