Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-19-2014, 04:34 AM   #1
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,287
vCash: 1000
Default Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Most fans routinely place Sanchez as a featherweight great, but do not put Pedroza in that class.
I say Pedroza's resume is better ,and I pick him to beat Sanchez had they fought.
Sanchez, by virtue of his untimely death gets a bit of the James Dean treatment,ie," how good could he have become?" Well his actual body of work is not superior to Pedroza's, and Pedroza was prepared to take his title anywhere, he was cynically dirty like another great feather [Saddler, ]but he was also very, very good, and is underated today.

Am I on my own on this?
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-19-2014, 11:44 AM   #2
Clinton
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,816
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Pedroza was GREAT, but did he beat anyone as good as Nelson and Gomez? And just for the record, Juan LaPorte, whose list of opponents is insane, says Sanchez is the best he ever fought.
Clinton is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 12:24 PM   #3
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,043
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

I do tire of the "How great might he have been" schtick you see parroted here all the time concerning Sanchez. He'd had a lot of fights, and defended his title nine times. How much more were they looking for?

Anyway, as to the specific question.........I think either answer is fair. Sanchez had a greater slew of opponents in the shorter time, but longevity (especially for smaller fighters that tend to age quicker) counts for a lot, and of course Pedroza rules the day there. Let's have a look:

Sanchez: Lopez x 2
Gomez
Laporte
Nelson

Pedroza: Lockridge x2
Taylor
Olivares
Laporte


Of that list of fighters, the edge in opposition has to go with Sanchez, as other than the Pedroza fight, we never saw Taylor extend a really world-class fighter. He survived against the Panamanian by literally sprinting around the ring. Other than that, he has no notable wins to speak of. Not sure then just how much credit we are to give Taylor.
It's open to debate that Pedroza really lost the first Lockridge bout. I thought he edged it by a round, but just as many say he should have lost it.
What can you say about Olivares at that point except that he was a shadow by 1979?

Still, the long reign against overall solid opponents scores a lot of points for Pedroza.

I guess I'm inclined to say Sanchez, but this one is really just a matter of personal taste. I wish they'd fought.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 01:57 PM   #4
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,287
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
I do tire of the "How great might he have been" schtick you see parroted here all the time concerning Sanchez. He'd had a lot of fights, and defended his title nine times. How much more were they looking for?

Anyway, as to the specific question.........I think either answer is fair. Sanchez had a greater slew of opponents in the shorter time, but longevity (especially for smaller fighters that tend to age quicker) counts for a lot, and of course Pedroza rules the day there. Let's have a look:

Sanchez: Lopez x 2
Gomez
Laporte
Nelson

Pedroza: Lockridge x2
Taylor
Olivares
Laporte


Of that list of fighters, the edge in opposition has to go with Sanchez, as other than the Pedroza fight, we never saw Taylor extend a really world-class fighter. He survived against the Panamanian by literally sprinting around the ring. Other than that, he has no notable wins to speak of. Not sure then just how much credit we are to give Taylor.
It's open to debate that Pedroza really lost the first Lockridge bout. I thought he edged it by a round, but just as many say he should have lost it.
What can you say about Olivares at that point except that he was a shadow by 1979?

Still, the long reign against overall solid opponents scores a lot of points for Pedroza.

I guess I'm inclined to say Sanchez, but this one is really just a matter of personal taste. I wish they'd fought.
Thank you for taking the time to put your point across.I''ll adress it when I am sober.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 02:10 PM   #5
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,043
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Thank you for taking the time to put your point across.I''ll adress it when I am sober.

Nonsense. ESB has a long-standing history of epic drunken meltdowns and heartfelt "I love you man" embarrassments through the years.

Blood alcohol level be damned. Let it fly.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 02:59 PM   #6
Drew101
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: "...The Land of Dixon and Langford..."
Posts: 8,143
vCash: 0
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Hey Sal.

Figured I'd make an appearance so that we could continue this long standing discussion of Sanchez and Pedroza. Also, it allows me to say that I hope all is well.

Just to play devil's advocate, let the record show that Olivares was coming off wins over veteran contender Shig Fukiyama and a young once beaten Jose Luis Ramirez going into his fight with El Alacran. He was a shadow, yeah...but a dangerous shadow, at least to some extent. So, it's not a win that can be dismissed entirely, even if Ruben was well past his prime.

Also, I think I would add an underrated Jorge Lujan as being one of Pedroza's better wins. Mocho was a quite capable titleholder at bantamweight and his victory over Miranda showed he could spring an upset at 126. Pretty good scalp to take, all things considered.

All that being said, I think Sanchez generally ranks ahead of Pedroza on all time lists for a reason, and that would be quality of opposition at the top tier. There may have been mitigating factors in a couple of Chava's better wins (Nelson and LaPorte being green, Gomez coming up in weight), but they're impressive zults nevertheless and probably earn Sanchez a higher slot than Pedroza on my all time featherweight list at the moment. They aren't that far apart, and I will go to my grave thinking that Pedroza takes at least one fight off of Sanchez in a three fight series...but the opposition is what it is, and Sanchez has that over Pedroza when comparing their resumes.
Drew101 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 02:59 PM   #7
Clinton
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,816
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
Nonsense. ESB has a long-standing history of epic drunken meltdowns and heartfelt "I love you man" embarrassments through the years.

Blood alcohol level be damned. Let it fly.
Post of the year!!
Clinton is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 03:47 PM   #8
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,508
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Pedroza only looks great when you dont count the three gift decisions vs Lockridge 1, 2, & B. Taylor. Obviously getting special treatment from the WBA

as to the question, "How great would Sanchez have become had he not been killed", How great might Pedroza become had he not lost to Barry McGuigan?

anyways, to me Pedroza was never more than a sturdy, dirty, infirghter with not much powe, who was bested by the best American fighters in close decisions, while Sanchez never left any doubt of the outcome in his fights.

also take note of his last minute knockout of Nelson & stoppages of Lopez & Gomez. You can put Pedroza in the same class as some of Sal's more elite victims
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 03:27 AM   #9
The Funny Man 7
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: here (duh!)
Posts: 3,223
vCash: 1326
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

As redrooster pointed out, Pedroza's legacy is propped up by people forgetting that Pedroza was shielded by some very loving officiating and scoring in bouts with Lockridge, Taylor, and LaPorte.
The Funny Man 7 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 04:00 AM   #10
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,287
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
Pedroza only looks great when you dont count the three gift decisions vs Lockridge 1, 2, & B. Taylor. Obviously getting special treatment from the WBA

as to the question, "How great would Sanchez have become had he not been killed", How great might Pedroza become had he not lost to Barry McGuigan?

anyways, to me Pedroza was never more than a sturdy, dirty, infirghter with not much powe, who was bested by the best American fighters in close decisions, while Sanchez never left any doubt of the outcome in his fights.

also take note of his last minute knockout of Nelson & stoppages of Lopez & Gomez. You can put Pedroza in the same class as some of Sal's more elite victims
Sanchez got a majority decision against Pat Ford,[whom Pedroza stopped], and a split decision against Pat Cowdell whom a more mature Nelson massacred. Hardly emphatically conclusive victories.

Twenty five stoppages in forty one wins suggest Pedroza was a bit more than a light hitter.

Gomez was coming up in weight, and would then return to the Super Bantam division. Nelson was a 13 fight pre- prime boxer , Five of Lopez's six losses were by stoppage he was a great puncher with little defence.
Pedroza was 30 when McGuigan beat him which makes your comment on the result non- sensical.

Last edited by mcvey; 04-20-2014 at 04:25 AM.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:47 AM   #11
Clinton
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,816
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Sanchez got a majority decision against Pat Ford,[whom Pedroza stopped], and a split decision against Pat Cowdell whom a more mature Nelson massacred. Hardly emphatically conclusive victories.

Twenty five stoppages in forty one wins suggest Pedroza was a bit more than a light hitterr.

Gomez was coming up in weight, and would then return to the Super Bantam division. Nelson was a 13 fight pre- prime boxer , Five of Lopez's six losses were by stoppage he was a great puncher with little defence.
Pedroza was 30 when McGuigan beat him which makes your comment on the result non- sensical.
McVey, you make good points. Cheers!!!! But, Gomez lost only 2 times to Atgs when he was on the go at feather and close to his prime: to Sal and Azumah. We all know Azumah had only 13 fights when he fought Sal, but we both know he fought a fantastic fight and looked like gold. And I know no one that feels the Ford and Cowdell decisions were controversial.
Clinton is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:51 AM   #12
Clinton
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,816
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
As redrooster pointed out, Pedroza's legacy is propped up by people forgetting that Pedroza was shielded by some very loving officiating and scoring in bouts with Lockridge, Taylor, and LaPorte.
Yes
Clinton is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 09:57 AM   #13
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,043
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Sanchez got a majority decision against Pat Ford,[whom Pedroza stopped], and a split decision against Pat Cowdell whom a more mature Nelson massacred. Hardly emphatically conclusive victories.

Twenty five stoppages in forty one wins suggest Pedroza was a bit more than a light hitter.

Gomez was coming up in weight, and would then return to the Super Bantam division. Nelson was a 13 fight pre- prime boxer , Five of Lopez's six losses were by stoppage he was a great puncher with little defence.
Pedroza was 30 when McGuigan beat him which makes your comment on the result non- sensical.
And Pedroza had better opposition then? If you cast that same "pick it apart" light on Pedroza's resume, it gets even more grim.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 10:56 AM   #14
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,508
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Sanchez got a majority decision against Pat Ford,[whom Pedroza stopped], and a split decision against Pat Cowdell whom a more mature Nelson massacred. Hardly emphatically conclusive victories.

Twenty five stoppages in forty one wins suggest Pedroza was a bit more than a light hitter.

Gomez was coming up in weight, and would then return to the Super Bantam division. Nelson was a 13 fight pre- prime boxer , Five of Lopez's six losses were by stoppage he was a great puncher with little defence.
Pedroza was 30 when McGuigan beat him which makes your comment on the result non- sensical.
Well if u want to nitpick the fact that a couple defenses went the full route, ask yourself which is worse, being able to fight a full fifteen or getting Ko'd by washed up Ruben Oivares in two?
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 12:09 PM   #15
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,214
vCash: 475
Default Re: Who Was Greater Sanchez Or Pedroza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
Well if u want to nitpick the fact that a couple defenses went the full route, ask yourself which is worse, being able to fight a full fifteen or getting Ko'd by washed up Ruben Oivares in two?
Poor Jose Luis Ramirez.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013