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Old 03-31-2008, 03:51 PM   #1
la-califa
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Default What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

How much different would have Tyson's legacy in boxing would have been? Up there with Ali & Louis?
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

1990: He beats Buster Douglas by Kayo

1990: He knocks out Evander Holyfield in 4-5 rounds

1991: Knocks out Razor Ruddock

1991: Knocks out Henry Tillman

1991: Outpoints Ray Mercer


1992: Knocks out Riddick Bowe

Knocks out Lennox Lewis

Outpoints George Foreman 12 rounds to Zero

1994 Knocks out Michael Mooorer
Knocks Out Tommy Morrison
Outpoints former sparring partner Oliver Mccall


1995-98 Continues to win but less and less fights.......Finally Lennox upsets Tyson who retires soon after at young age of 32.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

tyson Legacy is already up there. 8 of his 9 title defenses were against top rated contenders, the other against a young promising prospect. He dominated his title reign And title opponents like no other champion, avoided no one, UNIFIED ALL THREE BELTS IN JUST ONE YEAR.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Tyson would be unbeating today with a 100000 wins and 0 losses. Today at 45 or so, he would be knocking out the likes of Wlad and Kilt.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

He would have gone undefeated and probably would have retired at the age of 40 or so after knocking out both Klit bros. My reasoning for this is because he was an athletic specimen, who could outlast the wear and tear.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Belive me, there would be no Lewis "Era".

Tyson would rein from 86 or 88, depends if you go by lineal or not, and still be the unbeating unify champ today.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

1991: Knocks out Henry Tillman
No way a 1991 Henry Tillman fights for the title against an unbeaten Tyson. No one would sanction such a mismatch.

I do find these debates interesting. With many people not ever factoring in that Tyson had hit the self-destruct button, and that having a Rooney rather than Bright in his corner would of only at best delayed the eventual car crash that was Tyson.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Don't know if any corner could replace what Cus did being in his life.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

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Don't know if any corner could replace what Cus did being in his life.
Cus was a double edged sword though. Tyson's condition I suspect meant fame was perhaps the last thing he needed. Tyson needed control and discipline, boxing gave him that, but because he was so good, it led to his downfall.

Cus knew this I suspect and IMO was perhaps too interested in making another champ than recognizing the real needs of his adopted son.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Even indirectly he helped a massive deal. I doubt Tyson realize "Wow, this guys isn't there 100% for me".

He just knew he had a father of some sort.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

If Cus had lived and worked Tyson's corner for his entire career, I think he would have easily challenged Marciano's undefeated mark. Cus would have also made sure Tyson had no contact with Robin Givens or Desiree Washington.

Definitely Tyson vs Holyfield, Tyson vs Bowe, and Tyson vs Lewis would have happened earlier. Ruddock vs Tyson would have probably happened much earlier as well.

No doubt, Tyson would have a legitimate argument for being the greatest heavyweight of all time rounding out the top five with Jack Johnson, Ali, Joe Louis and Marciano. The fact that he's still debated as potentially the best heavyweight of all time speaks wonders about his career.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

He was already 37-0 in his early 20's, it would of definitely been possible.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
Cus was a double edged sword though. Tyson's condition I suspect meant fame was perhaps the last thing he needed. Tyson needed control and discipline, boxing gave him that, but because he was so good, it led to his downfall.

Cus knew this I suspect and IMO was perhaps too interested in making another champ than recognizing the real needs of his adopted son.
Teddy Atlas & Kevin Rooney provided intense training for Tyson to keep him in top shape. Also Jimmy Jacobs & Bill Cayton helped to try & keep Tyson focused on boxing. In addition to Cus. In all Tyson had a great supporting staff for any Champion to benifit from.

Last edited by amy; 04-27-2007 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Cus died. Jim Jacobs died. This was before 1990. Tyson's connection was stronger with both of those than he was with what remained. Rooney understood him and was a perfect trainer this side of Cus for him but Cayton was distant. Unless Rooney was ready to be with him 24/7, Tyson would be acting out like the adolescent he was when unsupervised. So there is no guarantee that he would be as stable as he was when he was living with the old man. Tyson was a lost soul pre-Cus and post-Cus.

Without Cus he was fatherless and ....bored. He needed alot of support (read: adult supervision and structure). Would Cayton and Rooney be enough? Who knows.

Let's say they were.

Tyson would have looked better in Bruno I. He needed Rooney to avoid the inevitable slide into ring brutishness just like he needed Cus to avoid taking up the inevitable mantle of the brute in life. You can see Tyson almost immediately slip a just a little in performance the first time that Rooney wasn't there. Of course, he was wrapping his car around a tree and smacking Robin "I'm going to Hell" Givens in the face and tearing his life apart in no time, too.

Tyson would have looked better in every subsequent fight, although I really don't know if Douglas wouldn't have beaten him anyway. If the fight took place in Tokyo as it did, then I see Tyson taking a lopsided -and unjust decision. Someone spiked the judges tea with methamphetamine, that much is clear if you remember the scores! Had it been held in America, then I don't discount Buster taken a just decision. Buster was firing on all cylinders that night and would be a tough man to beat for anyone.

By the way, I see his people realizing that they have to fight him often in his twenties because of his time-sensitive style...

In any event, Tyson would not have beaten Holyfield in 1991. Holyfield had his number. He knew his style, how to cope with it, had the tools to cope with it, and more importantly, Evander understood the fragile psychology under the armor... and he'd dent enough of it to expose that fragility underneath. I am utterly convinced and have been since the Dokes fight that Holyfield beats Tyson 5 out of 5 times.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]<--- the antidote.

I do, however, believe that Tyson would have beaten Lewis had they met earlier. Although I don't believe that Tyson would have beaten Bowe.

The Tyson record would have been along the lines of 46-0 or 45-1 had he fought at the rate of 4x per year as he did when he got the belts before meeting Holyfield in 1991. He'd be breathing down Marciano's neck alright but I have the feeling that Peter Marciano would be relatively okay because Mike loved the Rock and would pay his respects probably in Brockton when he started getting close to the record and the press started clamoring about it.

However, I'm not so sure that he'd surpass it unless his management moved him even more quickly, like they were in 86 when he had like 12 fights and chose the opponents carefully. I think that Holyfield would not be recognized as the danger he was to Tyson's style and he'd change that 0 to a 1.

And by the time Tyson was about 28, he would begin to decelerate quickly. Worse yet, he was not the kind of fighter who had the physical advantages to to adapt -Short HWs do not have that luxury. He had to get inside and hurt the big and the powerful and once his speed, flexibility, and output diminished, Tyson was going to become vulnerable to larger HWs. So the young ones out here should diffuse their Tyson fantasies with heavy reality.

His record at 28, before the losses started to become regular would be about 55-5 with losses to Holyfield (two more times), Bowe, and Foreman (-neither of whom he'd choose to rematch). After that point, he'd lose every time to a bigger, better, stronger Lewis... but not before Lewis become more powerful and Tyson started to devolve. Then he'd start getting tired of training and that would be that... he'd be a glorified opponent by about 30 or so.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: What if Tyson had kept his corner complete for his entire career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by la-califa
How much different would have Tyson's legacy in boxing would have been? Up there with Ali & Louis?
I think it would only have delayed the inevitable.

Tyson had a head start on both Louis and Ali going into the second Douglas fight. It is in the nature of champions to loose focus after they win the title and what set Louis and Ali apart from the rest as much as their ability was that they retained that hunger.

Tyson would have unraveled sooner rather than later and no corner in the world could have prevented it. His handelers would have been performing a conjouring trick to hold things together and it wouldnt have worked for ever.
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