Buster Douglas as a top 100 heavyweight

[mr. magoo]

Personally, I think James " Buster " Douglas is a bit underrated. When he went ino the ring against Mike Tyson in February of 1990, he brought with him an average man's record of 29-4-1-19, and was a miserable 38-1 underdog, ( or something like that. ) When reflecting on James Career, however I can't help but touch upon the fact that he really did have some talent as well as a few good signature wins. For one thing, his monumental upset over Mike Tyson was in and of itself a huge legacy. Although Tyson, was arguably sluggish and unmotivated ( as I have argued in the past ) he was still 23 years old and unbeaten in 37 fights, with at least 10 title defenses. We can't make much of a debate for Mike being washed up, as he clearly wasn't.

What's more James had some very good previous wins over an aging yet still competitive Trevor Berbick, a prime Greg Page, Tex Cobb, Mike Williams, a rising Oliver Mccall and undefeated prospect Dion Simpson. He would later pick up victories over tough trial hoarses Jerry Halstead and Dick Ryan. While his losses to Bey and White were less than flattering, the rest of his defeats came against reasonably good fighters in Jesse Ferguson, Tony Tucker, Evander Holyfield and Lou Savarese.

Douglas also possesed a fair amount of skill as well. He utilized pretty good footwork when he wanted to, had a very good left jab, and slightly above average punching power. He could also take a fight to the scorecards and win when he needed to .

Douglas retired with a respectable record of 38-6-1-25. Although he can't be rated with the likes of Dempsey, Jeffries, Louis, Johnson, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Marciano, Holmes, Lewis, Liston, Holyfield and several others, I would certainly like to think that he could be remembered as being more than just the journeyman who got lucky against Mike Tyson......

[ironchamp]

He had talent just no motivation, hell if he had another signature against a top flight opponent win he'd be on par with Riddick Bowe.

[Russell]

Well said, magoo.

Even though he wasn't at his best for even a partial part of his career, I still personally believe he makes it into the top 100 heavyweights.

His win over McCall has become more impressive with age looking at some of the things McCall has/is doing.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by Russell

Well said, magoo.

Even though he wasn't at his best for even a partial part of his career, I still personally believe he makes it into the top 100 heavyweights.

His win over McCall has become more impressive with age looking at some of the things McCall has/is doing.

Yeah I 've always felt that Douglas was better than we originally gave him credit for. I think one of the reasons that he was classified as a bum going in against Mike Tyson, was that we had a champion whom people built up to be an immortal figure, and the thought of even a decent contender standing a chance was just out of the question. Nearly two decades later, we know better, and I for one have developed a real appreciation for Douglas's career accomplishments as time passes.

[Street Lethal]

I don't know how I feel about Douglas. His beatdown of Tyson was amazing, you have to admit. He has looked good at other times, too. Tucker is a good boxer, and Douglas looked pretty good against him. I don't want to take anything away from Holyfield. But overall Douglas' career leaves a lot to be desired. Motivation is a big part of being a star athlete. Douglas represents an immense waste of talent. I think he is in the top 100, but I don't know where to put him. Certainly he's not very high.

[Lex]

Funny you should mention this. I've probably watched this fight ten or twelve times over the years and have come to the same conclusion every time:

When he beat Tyson, Douglas put on an all-time great performance. For that moment, he could have given hell to any heavyweight in history.

It wasn't just a less than stellar Tyson that made Douglas look good. Douglas was that good... that night. His style for that fight was reminiscent of a peak Riddick Bowe, but better.

Too bad Tyson's distractions and incompetent corner work have undermined the perception of what Buster Douglas accomplished that night.

[Vantage_West]

it's interesting becuase the people at the time were thinking if he beat holyfield then he would be the pound 4 pound king. he would of been remembered as a great champion.

he was very above decent and if he did or didnt have his fight with tyson we might have a boxing expert to say he had ther greatest jab in heavywieght history...knocking 2 guys out with a jab is very impressive...knocking guys down with a jab is impressive.but actually stealing the consciousness of the earth with a punch which is renowend for being weak...i mean that boggles the mind!!!!

even the tyson knockout was a left hand

[Jack Dempsey]

I'm sure Revolver had him in his Top 10

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

I don't know how I feel about Douglas. His beatdown of Tyson was amazing, you have to admit. He has looked good at other times, too. Tucker is a good boxer, and Douglas looked pretty good against him. I don't want to take anything away from Holyfield. But overall Douglas' career leaves a lot to be desired. Motivation is a big part of being a star athlete. Douglas represents an immense waste of talent. I think he is in the top 100, but I don't know where to put him. Certainly he's not very high.

If you compare his career to past champions, the closest fighter to him is Willard. They have remarkably similar careers. They both beat ATG champions by outlasting them, and then lost all motivation and were thumped when they defended their titles. As challengers they were nothing overly special and really only have that one big win. Douglas beat a better champ (at the time) while willard was probably a touch better in earning the title shot, as Douglas only got it really by a process of elimination because everyone else had been knocked out.

Where that is, is hard to say, is where that is. Probably somewhere around the top 50 is about right, but it could go up or down 10-20 places, depending on independent tastes.

[PowerPuncher]

Douglas was great that night. For me he ranks nearly as high as Riddick Bowe - both had 1 night of greatness and then went down hill. He is comparable to Schmelling/Tunney/Charles in catching great champs on off nights or past prime in Tunney/Charles case.

He ranks higher and is better than champs like Willard, Carnera, Braddock and Johanson

Top30 all time HW for me

[Dempsey1238]

about top 40 or 50 imo.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Douglas was great that night. For me he ranks nearly as high as Riddick Bowe -

I have often been critical of Tyson fans who claim that Douglas went from being a non entity to an all time great and then back again.

But I have to admit that if all I had seen of Douglas was the Tyson fight and knew nothing else I would thing he was an all time great. Say that I had been in a coma for 50 years (not hard to imagine given my boxing opinions) and then saw Tyson Douglas.

I would think that I had just seen the start of the Douglas era. Definitely one of my favourite fights.

[brooklyn1550]

Definitely top 100 - both in accomplishments and talent

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

If you compare his career to past champions, the closest fighter to him is Willard. They have remarkably similar careers. They both beat ATG champions by outlasting them, and then lost all motivation and were thumped when they defended their titles.

Disagree. Willard got thoroughly outboxed for the first 10, 15 rounds and indeed he beat Johnson by outlasting him.

But Douglas beat Tyson from pillar to post from the opening bell. It was not a matter of outlasting Tyson, it was a matter of beating him down over 10 rounds, hard.

[Mantequilla]

The bottom half of a top 100 heabyweight list would inevitably be filled with mediocrities.