Strength Training for boxing

[RDJ]

Originally Posted by cockneyhardman

that may be true but joe louis and joe calzaghe are not your average joes r they?(love the pun)
i've done strength training for a while and the fact is it's enhaced my agility
and stepping speed, which has crossed over into punching power too
my hands aren't any quicker but they aren't any slower either

How did that happen?

[Ingar]

Originally Posted by RDJ

What it suggests is that strength training only increases punching power if it causes hypertrophy. Neurological adaptations do not cross over. In other words unless you're gaining mass (and end up in a higher weightclass) it does not work.

That is a unfinished statement, the rest is thereby false. Given, they do not immediately cross over in the sense of doing heavy squats immediately increases your running speed by itself. But it does increase the rate of which your quadricep, gluteals and bicep femoris forcefully contract which will in turn increase your power output as you adapt it to your running because of improved work economy and motor unit activation.
Your article is full of holes, there are lots of studies that show increased power output from an increased 1RM in the squat or power clean (and they used a fucking leg extension exercise).
Spesificity is important, but absolute strength is the basis of many things, and one thing more important than anything else is economy of motion.
Increased absolute strength even has a significant improvement upon aerobic performance.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

If it was the truth that strength training doesn't increase power output through neural adaptation, Olympic weightlifters wouldn't be able to jump as high as they do, or run as fast as they do.
It's all about motor unit activation, maximal strength training improves that of which motor units are activated and that "crosses over" in the form of work economy and thereby power output.

[MrSmall]

RDJ you'd be surprised how these things work, its not all on paper (seeing as you haven't used these programmes before). Why don't you try it for yourself? Unless of course you don't want to which is fine, but it's not all with studies and neural adaptations and all that hogwash, if you get stronger and implement it to your boxing technique by just practising your punches you will have a stronger punch there's no 2 ways about it.
If you can snap your hips round faster and stronger, won't that equate to a harder punch? It will.

[RDJ]

Originally Posted by Ingar

That is a unfinished statement, the rest is thereby false. Given, they do not immediately cross over in the sense of doing heavy squats immediately increases your running speed by itself. But it does increase the rate of which your quadricep, gluteals and bicep femoris forcefully contract which will in turn increase your power output as you adapt it to your running because of improved work economy and motor unit activation.
Your article is full of holes, there are lots of studies that show increased power output from an increased 1RM in the squat or power clean (and they used a fucking leg extension exercise).
Spesificity is important, but absolute strength is the basis of many things, and one thing more important than anything else is economy of motion.
Increased absolute strength even has a significant improvement upon aerobic performance.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

If it was the truth that strength training doesn't increase power output through neural adaptation, Olympic weightlifters wouldn't be able to jump as high as they do, or run as fast as they do.
It's all about motor unit activation, maximal strength training improves that of which motor units are activated and that "crosses over" in the form of work economy and thereby power output.

It wasn't my article mate. I'll reply in depth later, I have to go now.

[RDJ]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

RDJ you'd be surprised how these things work, its not all on paper (seeing as you haven't used these programmes before). Why don't you try it for yourself? Unless of course you don't want to which is fine, but it's not all with studies and neural adaptations and all that hogwash, if you get stronger and implement it to your boxing technique by just practising your punches you will have a stronger punch there's no 2 ways about it.
If you can snap your hips round faster and stronger, won't that equate to a harder punch? It will.

It's the if in your last sentence that matters. Gotta go, my brother is waiting for me.

[MrSmall]

There's no doubt if your technique sucks buttocks and/or wears figure skating outfits then extra strength won't help you.
Technique first, always.
But strength training of all sorts can be beneficial some more obviously than others.

[cockneyhardman]

Originally Posted by RDJ

How did that happen?

it's simple - the leg strength i've acquired gives me more power in the push off
and stepping back and more power in the punch
pretty much in the same way a shot putter does with the leg extension, or a jumper or sprinter all of which do leg weight training
the most noticeable improvements with weight taining are shown in the legs which makes sense considering the bodyweight they have to move around

[BlackWater]

What's the song in that medicine ball video?

[Ingar]

Originally Posted by RDJ

It wasn't my article mate. I'll reply in depth later, I have to go now.

I know it wasn't your article, mate.
It doesn't matter how you try to put it, "strength" training has it's place in everything wether you'd like to admit it or not.
That does not mean that weight lifting is the only way to go in terms of strength training either though, you can train your absolute, explosive, strating strength in many other ways with great results (look at gymnasts for example, many of them do not even do any type of weightlifting).
If you don't like weightlifting, fine.
I'm just telling you about how effective the method really is, behind every great power athlete is a solid weightlifting programme just for those reasons I stated earlier. Economy of motion with motor unit recruitment and hypertrophy alike.

Read up on some basics in terms of sport physiology from books written by the ISSA or other good sources for more info on the subject, don't just post up a link of some biased, unfinished article you stumble upon the internet. We've been over this tons of times before, and it's getting old.

[Bill Humphrey]

I do strength training for boxing through lifting weights, but I learnt from Ross Enamait how to do it properly:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Ross is the main man for strength training and probably for fitness training to for that matter and he has written some great articles and books on the subject.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Regards BH

[ralphc]

Originally Posted by Ingar

That is a unfinished statement, the rest is thereby false. Given, they do not immediately cross over in the sense of doing heavy squats immediately increases your running speed by itself. But it does increase the rate of which your quadricep, gluteals and bicep femoris forcefully contract which will in turn increase your power output as you adapt it to your running because of improved work economy and motor unit activation.
Your article is full of holes, there are lots of studies that show increased power output from an increased 1RM in the squat or power clean (and they used a fucking leg extension exercise).
Spesificity is important, but absolute strength is the basis of many things, and one thing more important than anything else is economy of motion.
Increased absolute strength even has a significant improvement upon aerobic performance.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

If it was the truth that strength training doesn't increase power output through neural adaptation, Olympic weightlifters wouldn't be able to jump as high as they do, or run as fast as they do.
It's all about motor unit activation, maximal strength training improves that of which motor units are activated and that "crosses over" in the form of work economy and thereby power output.

Assuming what you have said is correct, how many people in boxing gyms have actually studied this material? How many boxers exercise the absolute disciple in training and in lifestyle that modern Olympians are famous for? Arturo Gatti admitted on TSN that he had been lifting weights which caused him to gain an extra 20 pounds, which he would have to dehydrate to make weight. As a matter of fact he got involved in a lawsuit because of this. A boxer with all his money should be able to hire the right people to get him in shape. The fact is virtually every boxer in the world today weight trains improperly by your standards.

[RDJ]

The article does not say strength training doesn't have a purpose. What it suggests is that strength not gained by hypertrophy is mostly specific to the movement, in other words that you should do it in a sports specific way unless hypertrophy is involved. Bag work for example, and I have found out that it works very well. Sure there will be some cross over gains, but why settle for cross over gains when you can have the real deal. Conclusion RDJ is a big proponent of strength training.

You can rehearse your motor unit story as many times as you like, and be as patronizing as you want as well, because it's not even contradicting with what I'm saying. Sure it's about "recruitment of motor units". And I think that your body will adapt to recruiting as much as possible by actually doing the movement that requires much of them in the first place. Specificity. I'm sure you know the principle, it's described in the same sports physiology books you want me to read.

[cockneyhardman]

pacquioa obviously did strength training to fight de la hoya and gained a few pounds doing it
and his hands were faster than ever - more so than when he was a featherweight

[Bill Humphrey]

When lifting weights there are 2 types of hypertrophy:

Types of hypertrophy

There are two different types of muscular hypertrophy: sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and myofibrillar hypertrophy. During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength. During myofibrillar hypertrophy, the myofibrils, comprised of the actin and myosin contractile proteins, increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle.

Strength training

Main article: Strength training
Strength training typically produces a combination of the two different types of hypertrophy: contraction against 80 to 90% of the one repetition maximum for two to eight repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate (as in powerlifters, olympic lifters and strength athletes), while several repetitions (generally 12 or more) against a sub-maximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes). The first measurable effect is an increase in the neural drive stimulating muscle contraction. Within just a few days, an untrained individual can achieve measurable strength gains resulting from "learning" to use the muscle. As the muscle continues to receive increased demands, the synthetic machinery is upregulated. Although all the steps are not yet clear, this upregulation appears to begin with the ubiquitous second messenger system (including phospholipases, protein kinase C, tyrosine kinase, and others). These, in turn, activate the family of immediate-early genes, including c-fos, c-jun and myc. These genes appear to dictate the contractile protein gene response.
Muscle hypertrophy due to strength training does not occur for everyone and is not necessarily well correlated with gains in actual muscle strength: it is possible for muscles to grow larger without becoming much stronger.

When lifting weights, you need to train for myofibrillated hypertrophy using low sets, low reps and maximum weight:

Bench Press 4 sets, 5 reps max weight
Squat 4 sets, 5 reps max weight

Use core exercises and include dumbells where possible

I would not lift more than twice a week but it will help with strength and you won't put on muscle mass if you do it properly.

Just out of interest Ross received a signed flag from the US Marine core for his work on fitness and strength training.

Regards BH

[viru§™]

Originally Posted by ralphc

Arturo Gatti admitted on TSN that he had been lifting weights which caused him to gain an extra 20 pounds, which he would have to dehydrate to make weight. As a matter of fact he got involved in a lawsuit because of this. A boxer with all his money should be able to hire the right people to get him in shape. The fact is virtually every boxer in the world today weight trains improperly by your standards.

Lifting weights does not cause you to magically gain 20lbs...