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Old 01-13-2011, 03:32 AM   #376
ironchamp
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Originally Posted by Vanboxingfan View Post
That's certainly one possibility. The other is that Lewis simply pushes him back and hits him with an upper cut when he comes back inside. Lewis is far stronger and far bigger than Tyson and the one thing Lewis was extremely good at was using his size to his advantage.
I can't imagine any other way that Lennox would try to fight him. Lewis is an ATG who used his size to his advantage better than any other big man in history.

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And like when they fought, Lewis might even loss a point or two just to keep Tyson at bay. And if he hits Tyson a couple of times with his overhand right or upper cut as Tyson's coming in, Tyson could easily get frustrated (and hurt).
Tyson never got frustrated because of power and to this day claims that Razor Ruddock hit him the hardest. He's occasionally flip flopped between Ruddock and Bruno but never really alluded to Lewis being the biggest puncher he's faced. Additionally even if Tyson did get hit on the way in, what's to say that he doesn't successfully counter? Remember it was Lewis was more susceptible to 1 Punch KO's not Tyson.

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I've noticed that many people point to the first round of their fight as proof that Tyson would get inside and win if he was in his prime, but most don't remember, or choose to forget, that it was actually Tyson, not Lewis who got hurt in that first round, regardless of who won the round. So I'm not too sure that a fight in both their primes would pan out a lot differently. Certainly Tyson was more shot than Lewis when they fought, that much we can all agree on, but styles make fights, and both their styles are basically kyponite for the other.
Bruno hurt Tyson in the first round, didn't matter. The reason why they point to it was because it was the only round fought on even terms; By the end of the 2nd round beginning of the 3rd round it was becoming increasingly obvious that Tyson was a spent force. He was not as explosive as one would have hoped for and he was uncharacteristically passive. The first round showed how the ebb and flow of their actual match would be, with Tyson showing success and Lewis showing success.

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So there's various plausable scenarios that can be laid out on both sides of this fight and one thing we can probably all agree on is that the longer the fight goes the better it is for Lewis.
In his prime Tyson's stamina was fine in fact I'd argue that he had better stamina than Lewis. Remember that Tyson's style was very taxing which is why youth was his greatest asset. Lewis had a style that relied on size and skill giving him the advantage an an advanced age. Tyson would pressure him throughout and unlike Tua he'd push him to his limits.

I actually see this resembling the Mercer fight, with Mike playing the role of Ray and actually getting the job done.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:33 AM   #377
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

Last but not least, if Lewis is pawing with the jab and comes with his predictable right behind it is not a question if but when he goes to sleep.

As I have stated earlier, if Lewis gets brave ala Golata or Grant his chin WILL betray him.

If he fights safe like in the Tua and to a extent in the Holyfield fights he is going to get outhustled IMO, he will win some rounds but not enough because if he cannot impose his size his pure boxing ability is certainly not superior to Tyson.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:41 AM   #378
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

thats a point i made earlier..WHICH lewis would you guys consider 'prime'..the younger more reckless one or the post ko chess player.....i dont like lewis style but id have to go with the post ko version...he knew he could be ktfo now and adjusted his style to compensate..made for some boring fights but he got the job done....i just think even this safety first lewis will eventually succumb to a prime, young, fit tyson..thbe easrlier more brawling inclined version of lewis gets brutalized....

..but as someone else saud, this IS the heavyweights and there are always gonn abe so many inangibles combined with one big tangible..power...that anything in realtiy could happen...but i continuue to favour tyson against either version of big lenny
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:09 AM   #379
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

Yes the best version of Lewis was the consistent winner post Ray Mercer fight.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:15 AM   #380
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

that version stands more of a chance against a prime tyson, but i just cannot see how even a 100% focussed lewis could keep the young, fit, feral tyson at bay for 12 rounds...the lateral movement, jab slipping and subsequenbt body/head assault would, in my nopinion, eventually get to lewis and given the manner of his two losses, i just can tsee him standfing up to tysonns explosive power..a harder fight for tyson than the younger gunslinging lewis for sure, but one in which he would ultimately prevail
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:18 AM   #381
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Originally Posted by Vanboxingfan View Post
That's certainly one possibility. The other is that Lewis simply pushes him back and hits him with an upper cut when he comes back inside. Lewis is far stronger and far bigger than Tyson and the one thing Lewis was extremely good at was using his size to his advantage.

And like when they fought, Lewis might even loss a point or two just to keep Tyson at bay. And if he hits Tyson a couple of times with his overhand right or upper cut as Tyson's coming in, Tyson could easily get frustrated (and hurt).

I've noticed that many people point to the first round of their fight as proof that Tyson would get inside and win if he was in his prime, but most don't remember, or choose to forget, that it was actually Tyson, not Lewis who got hurt in that first round, regardless of who won the round. So I'm not too sure that a fight in both their primes would pan out a lot differently. Certainly Tyson was more shot than Lewis when they fought, that much we can all agree on, but styles make fights, and both their styles are basically kyponite for the other.

So there's various plausable scenarios that can be laid out on both sides of this fight and one thing we can probably all agree on is that the longer the fight goes the better it is for Lewis.
Tyson mentally was a lot better in his prime. I dont know that he would have gotten hit that cleanly either. Also Im not so sure Tyson was "hurt" physically more than he was mentally. He just didnt have it in his gut to take punishment and keep fighting. I dont think Lewis hit Tyson any harder than Razor Ruddock did at any point.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:44 PM   #382
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Dude, that was a completly shot to pieces Tyson impersonator.........that fight means jack shit and what makes you think that Lewis would have hit prime Mike in that scenerio?
Well for one thing I don't think Tyson would be all that hard to find, so they'd be in close proximity to each other.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:45 PM   #383
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Tyson mentally was a lot better in his prime. I dont know that he would have gotten hit that cleanly either. Also Im not so sure Tyson was "hurt" physically more than he was mentally. He just didnt have it in his gut to take punishment and keep fighting. I dont think Lewis hit Tyson any harder than Razor Ruddock did at any point.
Don't know the answer to who hit Tyson harder between the two, but most people don't complain or even comment about being mentally hurt. I'm pretty sure he was physically hurt and I'm pretty sure it was an upper cut that did it.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:48 PM   #384
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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I can't imagine any other way that Lennox would try to fight him. Lewis is an ATG who used his size to his advantage better than any other big man in history.



Tyson never got frustrated because of power and to this day claims that Razor Ruddock hit him the hardest.
Well Holyfield frustrated the hell out of him, so manhandlng him could be one very effective way to frustrate him.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:49 PM   #385
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Don't know the answer to who hit Tyson harder between the two, but most people don't complain or evern comment about being mentally hurt. I'm pretty sure he was physically hurt and I'm pretty sure it was an upper cut that did it.
Its a lot easier to be discouraged when your heart really isnt into fighting. Some of the shots that Tyson took against Ruddock would have most certainly caused the same Tyson that Lewis fought to fold up. Tyson mentally was not focused on being a fighter and winner during the Lewis fight. They had to drag him to Hawaii where he barely made it through a training camp was photographed smoking pot on the beach. The point is there is no direct comparison to how the fight would have unfolded back when Tyson was a real fighter.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:56 PM   #386
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Its a lot easier to be discouraged when your heart really isnt into fighting. Some of the shots that Tyson took against Ruddock would have most certainly caused the same Tyson that Lewis fought to fold up. Tyson mentally was not focused on being a fighter and winner during the Lewis fight. They had to drag him to Hawaii where he barely made it through a training camp was photographed smoking pot on the beach. The point is there is no direct comparison to how the fight would have unfolded back when Tyson was a real fighter.
Can't argue with a lot of what you said, but where I do think there is a comparison is on the style match up.

But it appears that most people have gone from it being a fight that slightly favors Tyson to one in which Lewis can't possibly win, which I find a bit strange.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:00 PM   #387
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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Can't argue with a lot of what you said, but where I do think there is a comparison is on the style match up.

But it appears that most people have gone from it being a fight that slightly favors Tyson to one in which Lewis can't possibly win, which I find a bit strange.
Lewis could punch hard and he was a very good fighter, he would have a chance for sure.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:50 PM   #388
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

i don think the fight vs the tactical safety first lewis is easy for tyson, indeed, there is always apossibility, slim in my mind, but a posbility nonetheless, that lewis could aurvive and win a close fight on points..i said that pages ago..but i doubt it....and as iv stated, the younger bravado filled lewis is outta there within 5 rounds
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:11 PM   #389
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

I agree that Tyson was in bad nick in all sorts of ways when he met Lewis, but I also don't agree that the fight tells us nothing. Tyson looked a shell, but he turned the clock back for that first round, which he won on aggression I think.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md7Z3OeYo0E[/ame]
You can see Tyson bobbing and weaving, throwing the jab like the fighter of old, finding room to close the distance and land the right hand early.

What's more interesting is what Lewis does. He takes complete control of Tyson the first time he closed the distance. Even at his peak against very passive fighters, Tyson could be terrible in clinches. Here is a guy capable of totally manhandling him, exerting physical pressure, and landing some of his hardest shots (uppercuts) as well as obtaining new distance whenever he feels like it (something else Tyson didn't excel at, though he did do it sometimes). Lewis, as a fighter, exposes all the weaknesses in Tyson - the short reach and the relentless pursuit of one distance (middle).

Lewis is exceptional at close range, exceptional at long range and exceptional at controlling the range. Tyson is exceptional at one range.

I go so far as to say that the styles favour Lewis and Tyson should be the underdog.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:36 PM   #390
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, prime for prime, who wins?

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I agree that Tyson was in bad nick in all sorts of ways when he met Lewis, but I also don't agree that the fight tells us nothing. Tyson looked a shell, but he turned the clock back for that first round, which he won on aggression I think.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
You can see Tyson bobbing and weaving, throwing the jab like the fighter of old, finding room to close the distance and land the right hand early.

What's more interesting is what Lewis does. He takes complete control of Tyson the first time he closed the distance. Even at his peak against very passive fighters, Tyson could be terrible in clinches. Here is a guy capable of totally manhandling him, exerting physical pressure, and landing some of his hardest shots (uppercuts) as well as obtaining new distance whenever he feels like it (something else Tyson didn't excel at, though he did do it sometimes). Lewis, as a fighter, exposes all the weaknesses in Tyson - the short reach and the relentless pursuit of one distance (middle).

Lewis is exceptional at close range, exceptional at long range and exceptional at controlling the range. Tyson is exceptional at one range.

I go so far as to say that the styles favour Lewis and Tyson should be the underdog.
You are the most consistant uneducated 47000 post never seen a gym or gloves or frontside seats at even local toughman competition armchair pistolero ever.

As a matter of fact you are so utterly clueless in your observations that if ignorance would hurt you would be in agony 24/7. Fact.
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