My top 10 Heavyweights

[Sweet Science]

Hello to all I'm new here,

It was suggested that I should post my top 10 as a way to introduce myself and express my opinions and tastes.

Thought I'd select my heavyweight list for now.

Really like to hear other peoples opinions and there picks also.

Anyway here goes:

1 Muhammad Ali

2 Joe Louis

3 George Foreman

4 Jack Dempsey

5 Larry Holmes

6 Sonny Liston

7 Mike Tyson

8 Jack Johnson

9 Archie Moore

10 Ezzard Charles

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Sweet Science

Hello to all I'm new here,

It was suggested that I should post my top 10 as a way to introduce myself and express my opinions and tastes.

Thought I'd select my heavyweight list for now.

Really like to hear other peoples opinions and there picks also.

Anyway here goes:

1 Muhammad Ali

2 Joe Louis

3 George Foreman

4 Jack Dempsey

5 Larry Holmes

6 Sonny Liston

7 Mike Tyson

8 Jack Johnson

9 Archie Moore

10 Ezzard Charles

Tyson is a bit too high, Charles and Moore are both underrated as HW´s, but they are also too high, Liston is a bit too high, Foreman is way too high, Dempsey also, where´s Lewis and Marciano?


Here´s my Top 10 now: (I change it often of course a bit)


1: Ali
2: Louis
3: Marciano
4: Johnson
5: Lewis
6: Holmes
7: Dempsey
8: Frazier
9: Wills
10: Holyfield

[Sweet Science]

I feel Marciano is way too crude to be on the list. He was fortunate to go undefeated as he was around at just the right time (after Louis's prime and before Liston).

As for Lewis, although I respect him as a person (nice guy with impeccable manners). I don't feel he could have lived with some of the true greats. Mike Tyson from 87/88 would have been too much for him. Too quick and powerful, he would have got to test Lewis's chin with alarming regularity. People forget how good he was then. A prime Holyfield would of defeated Lewis also.

Foreman too high? Maybe. I understand he was very crude, however his power was unmatched and he had a good chin even in his first incarnation. He would have battered most of the great heavyweights in history.

[Chaney]

Welcome, Sweet Science. Unfortunately you have joined just after a huge crash on the site, causing us to lose all our archived and richly informative threads! Still, you can be part of the 'rebuilding of ESB.'

My top ten:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano
4. Dempsey
5. Holmes
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. Liston
9. Tyson
10. Langford

[djb2009]

Originally Posted by Sweet Science

Hello to all I'm new here,

It was suggested that I should post my top 10 as a way to introduce myself and express my opinions and tastes.

Thought I'd select my heavyweight list for now.

Really like to hear other peoples opinions and there picks also.

Anyway here goes:

1 Muhammad Ali

2 Joe Louis

3 George Foreman

4 Jack Dempsey

5 Larry Holmes

6 Sonny Liston

7 Mike Tyson

8 Jack Johnson

9 Archie Moore

10 Ezzard Charles

Charles and More and no Rocky get bent!!

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Sweet Science

I feel Marciano is way too crude to be on the list. He was fortunate to go undefeated as he was around at just the right time (after Louis's prime and before Liston).

As for Lewis, although I respect him as a person (nice guy with impeccable manners). I don't feel he could have lived with some of the true greats. Mike Tyson from 87/88 would have been too much for him. People forget how good he was then. A prime Holyfield would of defeated Lewis also.

Foreman too high? Maybe. I understand he was very crude, however his power was unmatched and he had a good chin even in his first incarnation. He would have battered most of the great heavyweights in history.

Tyson looked great and unbeatable against solid competition like Tubbs, Berbick, etc., but against great fighters he did nothing, that´s a fact. What could have been if he would have fought in his prime a prime Lewis for example is just speculation. Fact is, that Lewis title reign was really good and he defeated also some very good fighters like a washed up Holyfield (Lewis was also a bit washed up here), Tua, Golota, Grant, etc. He must be ahead of Tyson, sorry. Although I like Tyson much more than Lewis, but we must be fair. Marciano KO´d all of his HOF- opponents, all 3 were also a bit washed up, but all fights are on tape, and I have all three on tape when they were in their prime, and believe me, there isn´t that much of a difference here. Marciano never was lucky or got a lucky decision win or so, he deserves to be in a Top 10, whether at the 3rd place or at the 9th place, it´s so close to rate great fighters that both places are understandable. Foreman´s best wins are very rare, so to have him that high is IMO a bit hyperbolical...

[Nick Balsamo]

Originally Posted by Sweet Science

Hello to all I'm new here,

It was suggested that I should post my top 10 as a way to introduce myself and express my opinions and tastes.

Thought I'd select my heavyweight list for now.

Really like to hear other peoples opinions and there picks also.

Anyway here goes:

1 Muhammad Ali

2 Joe Louis

3 George Foreman

4 Jack Dempsey

5 Larry Holmes

6 Sonny Liston

7 Mike Tyson

8 Jack Johnson

9 Archie Moore

10 Ezzard Charles

Lennox Lewis and Rocky Marciano should be there for sure. Archie Moore isn't even Top 20.

Ezzard Charles ranks about 15th or 16th.

If Charles and Moore are there, Joe Frazier should be ahead of them.


Here's my heavyweight list :

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Jack Johnson
10. Mike Tyson

[Sweet Science]

Thank you for the welcome Chaney.

I look forward to contributing to the debates.

Your list is very highly respectable. I think I should have Langford on mine also. I totally forgot about the Boston Terror

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Chaney

Welcome, Sweet Science. Unfortunately you have joined just after a huge crash on the site, causing us to lose all our archived and richly informative threads! Still, you can be part of the 'rebuilding of ESB.'

My top ten:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano
4. Dempsey
5. Holmes
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. Liston
9. Tyson
10. Langford

Good list except Langford. Sorry, but Wills beat him 18 times out of 20 (although Langford wasn´t prime), Wills also defeated the better competition, so why have you Langford at 10th and Wills isn´t mentioned? The dwarf-syndrome?

[Nick Balsamo]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

Tyson is a bit too high, Charles and Moore are both underrated as HW´s, but they are also too high, Liston is a bit too high, Foreman is way too high, Dempsey also, where´s Lewis and Marciano?


Here´s my Top 10 now: (I change it often of course a bit)


1: Ali
2: Louis
3: Marciano
4: Johnson
5: Lewis
6: Holmes
7: Dempsey
8: Frazier
9: Wills
10: Holyfield

Sonny Liston would knock Evander out.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Nick Balsamo

Sonny Liston would knock Evander out.

No, I wouldn´t believe that this is crystal-clear. Btw, Liston´s resume is too less to rate him that high, beside a for a puncher tailor-made Patterson (and mentally totally haggard thereto) twice, Machen and a totally shot Valdes who has he beaten that justify such a high ranking? Perhaps his brave performances against the murderous puncher Ali?

[janitor]

My list

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhamad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Jim Jeffries
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Sonny Liston
8. Lenox Lewis
9. Sam Langford
10. Joe Frazier
11. Larry Holmes
12. Harry Wills
13. Mike Tyson
14. George Foreman
15. Evander Hollyfield
16. James Corbett
17. Joe Walcott
18. Max Schmeling
19. Ezzard Charles
20. Bob Fitzsimmons

[Sweet Science]

Tyson looked great and unbeatable against solid competition like Tubbs, Berbick, etc., but against great fighters he did nothing, that´s a fact. What could have been if he would have fought in his prime a prime Lewis for example is just speculation. Fact is, that Lewis title reign was really good and he defeated also some very good fighters like a washed up Holyfield (Lewis was also a bit washed up here), Tua, Golota, Grant, etc. He must be ahead of Tyson, sorry. Although I like Tyson much more than Lewis, but we must be fair. Marciano KO´d all of his HOF- opponents, all 3 were also a bit washed up, but all fights are on tape, and I have all three on tape when they were in their prime, and believe me, there isn´t that much of a difference here. Marciano never was lucky or got a lucky decision win or so, he deserves to be in a Top 10, whether at the 3rd place or at the 9th place, it´s so close to rate great fighters that both places are understandable. Foreman´s best wins are very rare, so to have him that high is IMO a bit hyperbolical...

In terms of achievements during a fighters career yes I agree with you Lewis and Marciano should be ahead of Tyson. I respect your well thought out opinion and reasoning. However, my criteria for top ten heavyweights, looks more at who would have beaten who in their respective primes. And yes speculation is a large part of that, but then again its just my personal opinion. I beleive Mike Tyson in his prime would have been extremely hard to break down and beat. The great fighters Tyson failed to beat, well he met them at a time when he was just a shadow of himself. Sure, Holyfield and Lewis beat Tyson but could they have beaten Iron Mike Tyson/ Kid Dynamite? He was a different prospect entirely, with good head movement, great speed and timing and that ferocious power and determination.

[Luigi1985]

Damn on my list I forgot Jeffries and had Ali in front of Louis...


Here´s my list:




1: Joe Louis
2: Muhammad Ali
3: Rocky Marciano
4: James J. Jeffries
5: Jack Johnson
6: Lennox Lewis
7: Larry Holmes
8: Jack Dempsey
9: Joe Frazier
10: Harry Wills

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by Sweet Science

In terms of achievements during a fighters career yes I agree with you Lewis and Marciano should be ahead of Tyson. I respect your well thought out opinion and reasoning. However, my criteria for top ten heavyweights, looks more at who would have beaten who in their respective primes. And yes speculation is a large part of that, but then again its just my personal opinion. I beleive Mike Tyson in his prime would have been extremely hard to break down and beat. The great fighters Tyson failed to beat, well he met them at a time when he was just a shadow of himself. Sure, Holyfield and Lewis beat Tyson but could they have beaten Iron Mike Tyson/ Kid Dynamite? He was a different prospect entirely, with good head movement, great speed and timing and that ferocious power and determination.

Every great fighter of history with a chin and with some power would have chances against Tyson, not that I say they beat him for sure, but have a chance, these fighters are for example: Liston, Wills, Ali, Holmes, Marciano, Foreman, etc., IMO a Top 10 list should always contain a mixture of ca. 70 % legacy and 30 % head-to-head- evaluation...