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Old 06-22-2007, 12:26 PM   #31
heerko koois
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

1- leon Spinks
2-Marvin Hart
3-Gerrie Coetzee
4-John Tate
5-bruce Seldon
6-Ingemar Johannson
7-Ezzard Charles
8-Mike Weaver
9-Tony Tubbs
10-Michael Spinks..
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

A lot of Ali zombies here, huh...

I'm just wondering two things...are people puttin up their top 10 favs or their objective top 10? - I mean my subjective list mirrors my objective more or less but thats just cuz of my general respect for fighters.

And what criteria are your top ten based on? Or should be based on?

I'll come up with my own top ten later but theres a good chance Louis and Ali will top it. Everyone should start off with those two, right?

im out
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:29 PM   #33
heerko koois
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhstDeini05
A lot of Ali zombies here, huh...

I'm just wondering two things...are people puttin up their top 10 favs or their objective top 10? - I mean my subjective list mirrors my objective more or less but thats just cuz of my general respect for fighters.

And what criteria are your top ten based on? Or should be based on?

I'll come up with my own top ten later but theres a good chance Louis and Ali will top it. Everyone should start off with those two, right?

im out
no Clay in my top 10.............
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

You won't find Jack Dempsey on this list, because he never faced his number one contender, Harry Wills. I like Dempsey, and think he stood a good chance of defeating Wills. This fight was so important because Dempsey still fought when you could argue having two champions, based upon race. You had the best black heavyweight in the world, and the best white heavyweight in the world. Dempsey and Wills needed to face each other to prove who the world's best heavyweight was. I realize that certain situations may have made that fight impossible to make, so I am not penalizing him for not fighting him. Nor can I reward him being that the fight never took place.

10. Mike Tyson

Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion ever, and had the best blend of speed and power ever seen in a fighter. He came out a winner in twelve title bouts. Tyson had the ability to rank higher on this list, but lacked the discipline. He never bested another elite fighter (Larry Holmes was 37), but Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Larry Holmes, Tony Tubbs, and Frank Bruno were all world titlists at some point in their careers. The knock on Tyson is that he never really overcame adversity in his fights, but when you were as skilled as he was you don't come across adverse situations all that often.

9. Evander Holyfield

Holyfield moved up from the cruiserweight division, where he was also champion, to excel in the heavyweight division like no other fighter moving up from below 200 lbs. has ever done. What he lacked in size, he more than made up for it with courage, determination, chin, and heart. He also had decent strength, a crisp punch, and above average speed. While his boxing skills were always apparent, he reinvented himself after losing his title to Riddick Bowe in 1992. He put on a masterful performance when he beat Bowe to regain his title a year later. He seemed to decline afterwards, losing a disputed decision to Michael Moore. He again rose to championship form, putting on a wonderful boxing display in stopping Mike Tyson, and another solid outing when he stopped Michael Moorer in their rematch. Other notable wins came against Michael Dokes, an aging George Foreman, an aging Larry Holmes, Ray Mercer, and Hasim Rahman.

8. Lennox Lewis

Lennox Lewis barely edges out Holyfield for this spot on the list. Lewis had his flaws, but did not seem overly confused by any style in particular. He had a size advantage over Holyfield. His competition was on par with Holyfield's. Not to mention a win over Holyfield, though I feel Holyfield had started his decline at that point. Lewis had a booming right hand, stiff jab, and has a victory over every fighter he has faced. With sixteen successful title defenses, spread over the course of two reigns, he ranks third amongst the heavyweight champions. He had a suspect chin, and was not always properly motivated for his fights; but only suffered two set backs in spite of these flaws. It would have been nice to have seen how he would have dealt with Riddick Bowe, but he was able to beat one man that had previously defeated Bowe(Holyfield) He also made short work of Andrew Golata. Golata had previously thrown two dominant performances over Riddick Bowe away due to fouls. Lewis also showed the ability to overcome adversity. He was in very close fight with Frank Bruno, and turned it on to stop him in the seventh. He was losing, in my opinion, to Vitali Klitschko; but seemed to be taking the fight over when that bout was stopped due to an awful gash near Klitschko's eye. Other than the aforementioned fighters, notable wins came against Razor Ruddock, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Shannon Briggs, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, and Mike Tyson.

7. Joe Frazier

Joe Frazier was armed with one the best left hooks in division history, was strong willed, and had the gas to burn. Frazier's most notable wins were against Buster Mathis, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster, and Muhammad Ali. It is also important to notice he only lost to two men over the course of his career, both of which make this list.

6. George Foreman

It is tempting to think of Foreman as having two careers, as two different fighters, because of his ten year layoff from boxing in the middle of his career. Also because of his seeming personal tranformation. I don't really buy the make over. I am not saying he is a scam artist, or that he doesn't believe in his ministry. I am referring to the good guy, bad guy routine. I don't believe that Foreman was ever really a bad guy. I think he was perceived that way because of his strong will and savage strength. He brutalized his opponents in a way that it would seem only a thug be capable of. After his ten year retirement he came back near forty, bald, clean shaven, fat, forcing a smile, and perceived by many as a joke. Also perceived was a change of heart. It is hard paint a forty year old smiling fat man as a villian. George Foreman may now be famous for his smile, but he has never been a joke. Foreman posessed a sledge hammer jab, granite chin, dogged determination, and was probably the physically strongest heavyweight champion ever. He looked amateurish at times, but was able to overcome any stylistic shortcomings on most occasions. Before losing his title to Muhammad Ali, he demolished Joe Frazier and Ken Norton. He was involved in one of the greatest heavyweight bouts ever when he knocked out Ron Lyle. He inspired millions when, Foreman age 42, unsuccessfully challenged 29 year old Evander Holyfield for the heavyweight championship. He later went on to become the oldest heavyweight champion in history, 45 years old, when he defeated Michael Moorer. Shannon Briggs found out that a 48 year old Foreman was stil a formidable foe, when he was pummeled and won a disputed decision over him in Foreman's final outing.

5. Rocky Marciano

Marciano had one of the divisions best chins, bone jarring punch, and seemed able to keep coming no matter what.Rocky Marciano's record run of 49 straight wins is, as of this date, still a record. In fact, he never lost as a profesional. You might wonder how a fighter that never lost is not at the top of the list, but his level of competition is what stops him. For the most part, he faced the best he could. Joe Walcott was an excellent fighter, but was 38 years old for their first fight, and 39 in their second. Ezzard Charles may have been the finest light-heavyweight that ever lived, but the smaller man was into his 30's at the time of their fights. Archie Moore is another argument for best light-heavy ever, but was 38 year old out of his division as well. Marciano would probably rank 2 spots higher on this list if he had fought, and defeated (which was possible), Floyd Patterson. If he had faced, and defeated (doubtful), Sonny Liston; he would make an argument for the top spot.

4. Larry Holmes

Larry Holmes tends to be the most underated heavyweight in history. He ranks second in number of consecutive wins, which was 48. He ranks second with his title reign of over 7 years. He also ranks second with number of successful defenses with a more than impressive total of 20. His level of competition was not the best, but he managed to defeat 8 men that held world titles at some point in their careers. Holmes had one of the best jabs ever seen, was an accurate puncher, and was able to pick apart his opponent 69 of the 75 times one was place in front of him. Notable wins came against Ken Norton, Ernie Shavers, Ossie Ocasio, Mike Weaver, Muhammad Ali, Trevor Berbick, Leon Spinks, Gerry Cooney, Tim Witherspoon, James Smith, Carl Williams, and Ray Mercer. Holmes was age 42 when he beat undefeated, 30 year old, Ray Mercer.


3. Jack Johnson

You almost have to rank Jack Johnson highly just on the hell he went through to become champion. It was not easy being black in the early 1900's, and Johnson endured a double dose of hatred. Whites hated Johnson because he was black, and good. Some blacks hated him because he didn't act according to society's standards, and thought that his defiance of the racist majority brought a bad name to all black people. Johnson fought during a time that white fighters could duck black fighters by claiming that they did not believe in fighting people of another race. Johnson had to prove he was the best black heavyweight in the world long before he proved he was simply the best heavyweight. Notable wins came against Sam Langford, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jim Flynn, Tommy Burns, Al Kaufman, Stanly Ketchel, and Jim Jeffries.

2. Joe Louis

Louis may have had the best offensive arsenal in heavyweight history. His power was not that of someone like Mike Tyson, but he could definately hurt you with every punch he hit you with. The closest comparison I can think of at this writing is a heavyweight Julio Cesar Chavez. He has the longest title reign of anyone, over 12 years. He also has more consecutive title defenses than anyone with 26. Notable wins came against Max Baer, Jack Sharkey, James Braddock, Max Schmeling, John Henry Lewis, Billy Conn, and Joe Walcott.

1. Muhammad Ali

Ali may arguably be the most famous athelete ever, but that is not why he ranks at the top of this list. He had a top notch jab, exceptional speed, great chin, a will to win like no other; and he fought during the divisions most competive era. He has the most notable win column of this list with Henry Cooper, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Terrell, Zora Folley, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, and Ernie Shavers.

Note: I just cut and pasted this over from where I had posted it elsewhere. I have since swithched Lewis, and Frazier.
It would now read:
10. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
7. Lennox Lewis
6. George Foreman
5. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
3. Jack Johnson
2. Joe Louis
1. Muhammad Ali
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Mike Tyson in the top-10 but no Buster Douglas?
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:50 PM   #36
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Well Marciano never face Liston because Liston was in prison at the time, and Liston did not build up a boxing rep. By the time Liston became number 1 contender in 1959, Marciano was WELL into retirement. for about 5 years. Not to mention the Rock would have be nearly 37 or so at the time. If Rocky made a come back vs Liston and lost, I would not hold it against the Rock because 37 is for too old for that the style Marciano applie. I agree a Patterson fight may have happen if Cus was not protection Patterson(He stay clear of a fight with the Rock), But Liston is a bit of a gap imo. It would be like Tyson taking on Kilt or something like that today.
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:31 PM   #37
mr. magoo
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

These are irrefutably the greatest of all time

1. James Tillis
2. Steve Zouski
3. Dave Jaco
4. Joe Grim
5. Jack Roper
6. Bobby Crabtree
7. George " scrap iron" Johnson
8. John " big red " Morton
9. Jerry " Wimpy" Halstead
10. Mike " the giant" White
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
These are irrefutably the greatest of all time

1. James Tillis
2. Steve Zouski
3. Dave Jaco
4. Joe Grim
5. Jack Roper
6. Bobby Crabtree
7. George " scrap iron" Johnson
8. John " big red " Morton
9. Jerry " Wimpy" Halstead
10. Mike " the giant" White
What about Butterbean? He is for sure a top 5.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:04 PM   #39
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
These are irrefutably the greatest of all time

1. James Tillis
2. Steve Zouski
3. Dave Jaco
4. Joe Grim
5. Jack Roper
6. Bobby Crabtree
7. George " scrap iron" Johnson
8. John " big red " Morton
9. Jerry " Wimpy" Halstead
10. Mike " the giant" White
Jack Roper dose not belong on this list. He ocasionaly beat the better fighters of his era which rules him out.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1234
What about Butterbean? He is for sure a top 5.
He did go the distance with a prime Larry Holmes.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:09 PM   #41
mr. magoo
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homicidal Hank
You're an idiot. Jack Roper is way too low. He faced Joe Louis, for Pete's sakes.
I do believe you're correct. How silly of me to give Mr. Roper such a low rating.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
He did go the distance with a prime Larry Holmes.
Yeah, and knocked him down legit too. He was robbed.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:13 PM   #43
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Jack Roper dose not belong on this list. He ocasionaly beat the better fighters of his era which rules him out.
True,

His record was 58-44-10-29, meaning he won about half of his fights. Plus he was Ko'd in the first round on only 7 occasions, which I suppose isn't that many. Therefore, he deserves a far better rating.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: My top 10 Heavyweights

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Larry Holmes
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Jack Dempsey
8. George Foreman
9. Mike Tyson
10. Joe Frazier
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
He did go the distance with a prime Larry Holmes.
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