Larry Holmes vs Gerry Cooney

[boxon123]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

Some finer points for you Rico

Gerry Cooney came along at the right time.

Boxing was looking for a Heavyweight superstar to catch the imagination because Holmes, on the whole, hadn't. He had the unfortunate (and impossible) burden of following the enigma that was Ali, and he just couldn't fill the void.

Holmes was outspoken for starters, and his bitterness only served to alienate him further from the audience with whom he clamoured so much for his "due". He had zero of Ali's charisma and flair and was seen as boring and not that talented for the longest time by a demanding public.

Cooney was (big point here too)white, and he was also exciting and totally destructive at that time. He was a massive puncher, and massive punchers inspire fear and awe. He was like a breath of fresh air right at that time in a division crying out for a champion they could love, or at least get excited over. Cooney had a real story behind him too.

Why do i ramble all this? Because a lot of this added up to Holmes being immensely underrated, both by the public and the experts. Cooney, by the same token, partly due to the excitement he caused and public yearning was in retrospect somewhat overrated tho certainly a fine fine challenger.

Looking back it is incredible just how many experts took Cooney. But as i say he had caused some real havoc vs bad to good opposition and it was the [i]way[i] he was knocking people over too.

I'll see if i can find some predictions in a day or so, i have a mag here somewhere with heaps of em.

Big Book of Boxing read this fight like a book, and predicted as if they had a crystal ball.

I was very raw to boxing, and watched this fight live on free tv. As long as the undercard including Page - Berbick, Gomez - Lopez (i think it was)

Holmes showed that tho he could never replace Ali he was a worth heir apparent in the ring, where his sterling skills finally began to be fully appreciated.

Interestingly Gerry was only 26 YO when this fight happened ,in the HW game today he would not be expected to be at his peak for another 5/8 years! When you look back at the fight Cooney was a reasonable fighter.

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Cooney pickers.

Johnny Bos
Teddy Brenner
Bobby Czyz
Lou Duva
Marv Albert
Tony Ayala snr
Vito Antuofermo
Gil Clancy

Holmes pickers.

Ferdie Pacheco
Murray Goodman
Johnny Bumphus
Mike Katz
Ron Katz

This is a better breakdown:


Cooney pickers:

Everyone who hated Holmes.


Holmes pickers:

Everyone else.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

I had a friends who owned clubs In NY(long Island) Gerry frequented them and I also knew many people on the inside fight game from the L.I. area...Gerry was there one night drinking and made severel trips to powder his nose...the guys in the club knew it and I was there one night, I had an interest in the club and was given the lowdown from the owners and workers. I also had friends who were close to his management and Gerry and his brother Tom ( who won the NY golden Gloves were both sent to rehab for heavy COKE use.....this was before the Holmes fight...I also know another well known fighter who shared a LIMO with Gerry and the mix of alcohal and drugs were evident early on. I dont need to say how many fighters (Michael Dokes) and others that had there careers shortened by drug use. The managers wanted to get him a shot at the title before something happened. without mentioning names many people were aware of Conney's drug use

Very interesting story, this is what i love about ESB.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by boxon123

Interestingly Gerry was only 26 YO when this fight happened ,in the HW game today he would not be expected to be at his peak for another 5/8 years! When you look back at the fight Cooney was a reasonable fighter.

For sure, and he could have matured into a fine one if he had the right ingredients desire wise.

[zadfrak]

A lot of the folks picking Cooney were going with punching power/youth/Holmes getting tagged by Snipes. People saw that knockdown against a guy like Snipes at the time--and nobody on the planet was picking Renaldo in that one--as a sign he was deteriorating and sliding down the ladder. And easier to hit than he was in the past. They saw Cooney as a threat and figured he'd bomb Holmes out the way Larry got starched by Wells. And don't most boxing fans evaluate punching power as the be all and end all of most fights?

But it was the same then as it is now with the casual boxing fans siding with the popularity factor of one guy over the other. Kind of like the recent DLH==Pacquiao fight where casual fans were fortunate to have seen 2 or 3 of Manny's fights. So guess who they pick to win the fight? But they were aware of the other guy's popularity so they go with that. And make no mistake, Cooney was a very popular guy going into that bout & it's a matter of public perception.

[mike4819]

I saw this fight on-screen at the felt forum. 50 bucks for a ticket if I remember right
Anyway, my 2 cents worth-

Early in the fight, Cooney was knocked down and looked like he wanted to run out of the ring. He settled down a bit though and actually had a very good round, the 10th I think.
Although he made money with the "wacko twins", I think he was badly mis-managed. Experience-wise, He was a good 4 or 5 rights away from title shot. He always looked awkward to me, like his legs were too long or something, But he had some serious power. Victor Valle was a gentleman, and loved the kid, but I wonder what Clancy could have done with him early. Also I'm almost certain, that he was a natural south paw but boxed righty. He seems a nice guy, and he's doing some good work now (f.i.s.t.) I think.
All in all, I think he had the tools, (not sure about the desire), if handled really professionally, to have had a more impressive career than he had.
Today? Cooney vs. Klitschko?? hmmm.

[jowcol]

Here's the definitive answer (well maybe not )
I was there, 28 years old, a boxing fan since 60-61 thanks to my Dad.
I (we, my buddy and I) were so sure we bet $500 apiece on Larry.
I've read the posts on Gerry's drug use, mis-management, etc..but IMHO, had Gerry been managed better, lose the drugs (whenever this happened?), and kept active prior to Larry he would have ALWAYS lost this fight in any scenerio. A better prepared Cooney may well have floored Holmes but woundn't have kept him there. As boxing fans we can easily see the true heart of a champion irregardless of any training or out of ring 'issues'. Larry had it, Gerry didn't. Simple as that. Cooney was mismanaged but good fighters with something under that left tit see that and adjust early, he didn't and basically got his arse handed to him by an ATG. The fight went down as it should have. Hall of Fame Larry ruled, Hall of Shame Gerry drooled...my $0.02

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by mike4819

I saw this fight on-screen at the felt forum. 50 bucks for a ticket if I remember right
Anyway, my 2 cents worth-

Early in the fight, Cooney was knocked down and looked like he wanted to run out of the ring. He settled down a bit though and actually had a very good round, the 10th I think.
Although he made money with the "wacko twins", I think he was badly mis-managed. Experience-wise, He was a good 4 or 5 rights away from title shot. He always looked awkward to me, like his legs were too long or something, But he had some serious power. Victor Valle was a gentleman, and loved the kid, but I wonder what Clancy could have done with him early. Also I'm almost certain, that he was a natural south paw but boxed righty. He seems a nice guy, and he's doing some good work now (f.i.s.t.) I think.
All in all, I think he had the tools, (not sure about the desire), if handled really professionally, to have had a more impressive career than he had.
Today? Cooney vs. Klitschko?? hmmm.

He is a natural lefty. He signs with his left hand, and his left arm is clearly dominant.

[mike4819]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

He is a natural lefty. He signs with his left hand, and his left arm is clearly dominant.

I stand corrected!

[dnr0720]

I was about 11 when this fight took place and I remember my dad wanting Cooney to win so bad from this fight on Cooney was known as a Yellow Belly Bum in my house according to my dad. ahh Good Times

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

Very interesting story, this is what i love about ESB.

Exactly. You never know whats around the corner on here.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

I had a friends who owned clubs In NY(long Island) Gerry frequented them and I also knew many people on the inside fight game from the L.I. area...Gerry was there one night drinking and made severel trips to powder his nose...the guys in the club knew it and I was there one night, I had an interest in the club and was given the lowdown from the owners and workers. I also had friends who were close to his management and Gerry and his brother Tom ( who won the NY golden Gloves were both sent to rehab for heavy COKE use.....this was before the Holmes fight...I also know another well known fighter who shared a LIMO with Gerry and the mix of alcohal and drugs were evident early on. I dont need to say how many fighters (Michael Dokes) and others that had there careers shortened by drug use. The managers wanted to get him a shot at the title before something happened. without mentioning names many people were aware of Conney's drug use

When yo look at it in this context you have to ask what Cooney might have been able to do without these problems.

Hell what could the whole era have been if cocaine was uninvented in the mid 70s?

[$.02]

Originally Posted by janitor

When yo look at it in this context you have to ask what Cooney might have been able to do without these problems.

Hell what could the whole era have been if cocaine was uninvented in the mid 70s?

Yeah, Cocaine messed up the 70's and crack destroyed the 80's. Many fighters from the 80's were also destroyed by drugs too.

[Rico Spadafora]

Originally Posted by jowcol

Here's the definitive answer (well maybe not )
I was there, 28 years old, a boxing fan since 60-61 thanks to my Dad.
I (we, my buddy and I) were so sure we bet $500 apiece on Larry.
I've read the posts on Gerry's drug use, mis-management, etc..but IMHO, had Gerry been managed better, lose the drugs (whenever this happened?), and kept active prior to Larry he would have ALWAYS lost this fight in any scenerio. A better prepared Cooney may well have floored Holmes but woundn't have kept him there. As boxing fans we can easily see the true heart of a champion irregardless of any training or out of ring 'issues'. Larry had it, Gerry didn't. Simple as that. Cooney was mismanaged but good fighters with something under that left tit see that and adjust early, he didn't and basically got his arse handed to him by an ATG. The fight went down as it should have. Hall of Fame Larry ruled, Hall of Shame Gerry drooled...my $0.02

I bet it was a hell of an atmosphere at the fight in person.

[ThinBlack]

Originally Posted by Rico Spadafora

for those that were around at the time what were the thoughts of fans and Boxing writers leading up to the fight? Did people actually think Cooney had a chance?

It seems like this fight got a lot of attention in the media at the time and was a big event so to speak.

What were your thoughts at the time before the fight?

Many people thought Gerry had a serious chance to win it.

I felt that Holmes had too much skill, and experience, for Cooney to win.I remember seeing a certain elder gentleman at the closed circuit viewing for the fight, and he asked me who was I picking to win.I told him Larry, and he told me he felt Gerry was going to win.